Hahaha, you just love to keep mentioning me, don't you?

As I've explained before -- this is a debating issue, if you DO NOT WISH TO DEBATE OR "get into it" THEN DON'T POST HERE. Stop being such a baby and acting like a victim. Posting in this thread, you're now at risk to get into a debate with someone whose opinion differs from yours. But I guess you still haven't gotten that yet.

And I'm sick of this "well, that's the way God made it" excuse. It's so piled up with bullshit that it's just overflowing with assumptions. How do you all know what God meant to be? 'Cause men and women can reproduce? So what? This excuse is so over-played and so lazy. Let's all blame our problems on the way "God intended it to be" yet we've never even met the Man; and most of us don't know for sure if He exists. Not saying I don't believe in Him -- I do -- just stating a point. If a man and a man or a woman and a woman weren't "meant to be together" 'cause they can't "reproduce" then why would God have made them homosexual; the way they are? Exactly, he wouldn't have. Gays don't choose to be gay, it's been proven it's genetical. Just because they can't reproduce that doesn't mean they're "not meant to be." They are able and willing to love each other and THAT'S WHAT COUNTS. Since they are capable of loving each other, then I guess they ARE meant to be. Homosexuals having the right and power to mutual love is all that matters; not if they can breed or not. Why don't we stop trying to stop people from getting the same rights we do just because they're different?

huh? your STILL bickering? you basically just said my opinon is bullshit, after you said awhile back that im ignorant for saying yours was bullshit. GET A LIFE MAN, seriously, go away, do something! GOD DAMN your like a nat at a BBQ. You cant seem to get over it. You think my opinions bullshit COOL, go tell you mom and dad about it, i dont care what you have to say.

im trying to respect J geoff and SC by ignoring you, but your the one who keeps goin on and on.

Hey, buddy -- THIS IS A DEBATING THREAD. LEAVE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT. "Bickering" I am not -- replying to statements made by other people in our debate I am. If you don't wanna hear it, run along. You're telling people to "stop debating" in a debating thread. Go figure.

And my statement says your's was "bullshit?" It pretty much proved it wrong. Maybe you can slap two brain cells together and form a reply that's worthwhile and might actually say something against mine rather than the tiresome "OMG STOP REPLYING IN A DEBATE THRED"

Sorry, I'm not going "on and on." I was basically replying and agreeing with was Plawrence said. I never said "DON POPE UR WRONG" I'm not a brat like you.

He was talking about IGNORING YOU, just to let you know.

Hes still goin and goin! YEA! lets see if we can get our post count up. Like seriously does it bother you that much? let it go man, let it go...

Yep, exactly what I thought. No actual responses to anything I said -- just pointless bickering about OFF TOPIC subjects.

Please, if you don't wanna hear "bickering" I suggest you leave a thread about debating. Seriously.

im not even reading your posts, im just waiting for you stop bitching. Ill tell ya what go into the chatroom when you get this.

OK, just like in the other thread - STOP THIS SHIT NOW!!

Do not reply with "He started it", or "Its not MY fault". Just stop it NOW!

This is the problem I have. Gay couples cannot reproduce, but they are acquiring children through surrogates and adoption. This is a new area and we do not know what the results will be. Generations from now we will begin to understand the results of children that are raised in a gay household. Is your sexual preference really in your gene's or can it be a product of the enviorment that you are raised in. Children of Firemen become Firemen, Children of antisemites become antisemites, Chiildren of Alcoholics become Alcoholics. It is just food for thought.

I do believe that same sex couple's should be entitled to the same civil right's that married couple's have. But these right's should also be extended to others types of couples.

Elderly widows looking for companionship.
A Single parent taking care of an adult child.
An adult taking care of an aging parent.

There are plenty of different couple's out there. We don't need to change the meaning of words for all of them.

I don't think living in a gay household turns you gay. Because, as I said before, it's already been proven to be genetical. If you don't have the gene, you can't just turn gay -- you don't choose to. And environment doesn't really seem like a way to change your sexuality. Your job, sure -- because you look at your dad and go "I wanna be like him." You idolize your father. Alcoholism? That's a disease/disorder -- they run in genes and the blood. But you don't say "hey, I wanna be gay like my father." As long as they're a good parent and teach their son or daughter morals, then I see no problem with it.

But we don't know for sure. I would have to think that many of these children will be swayed based on what they know. Also children can be terrible while you are growing up. Gosh when I was growing up other kids gave you a hard time if you had cheap sneakers or did,nt dress right. How are these Children(Gay Household) going to be treated by their peers. They are going to be alot of children with alot of issues.

I don't think living in a gay household turns you gay because there have been many cases thus far where two gay parents bring up a child/children. If it did change their sexuality, I'm sure there would be alot more talk about it. It's been going on for a while now, and no cases have been cited. I'm sure if someone being raised by gay parents turned gay themselves, it would be on the news, the radio, in the papers -- and alot more about it would be heard within this gay marriage subject. It hasn't happened -- and it's not a disorder or disease or something you idolize or are brought up on -- so I'm lead to believe it doesn't change your sexuality or else we'd have heard of it by now. Catch my drift?

It's good to have a mature discussion about this subject.

i´m agree with that, is truth about the genetic component in homosexuality, but also is truth the important roll of the ambient in people´s decisions and beliefs, human being exist in a social ambient ,is a social animal, have relationships ,conections with others of its same species, but i´d not belive in the fact about all the kids with parents of the same sex, have to be gay , alcoholic, junkie or whatever in all the cases.

And also -- very rarely, so far, has it been shown that personal relationships have caused homosexuality or that people's surroundings are connected with homosexuality. Not very often do we find a gay person with all their surroundings and friends and environment being gay; leading us to believe it was a trigger. It just doesn't happen too much, and certainly not nearly enough for us to believe that it's the cause and effect.

yeah truth, my point was about the important of social roll in people, u know , not only in homosexuality ,in all things, i´m agree with u, parents with the same sex don´t means a future gay.

I do catch your drift but you may be refering to grown children either adopted or in a foster home. What I mean by a child raised in a gay household is;

A baby raised from birth by two same sex parents. I don't think there are many cases of this type of child that are currently of adult age now. I am not one to say let's wait & see what happens with these children. I do not have faith in society when it come to this. I do believe that it could be done right but for every sucess there is the potential for many broken lives.

It's good to have a mature discussion about this.

Knock on Wood

Also we are talking about possibilities. The child of the Alcoholic can also be a causual drinker that devotes there life to working with people in AA.

Minors need laws to protect them because they are just that--minors. That's why we have statuatory rape laws. The thinking is that a minor can't give consent because they are a minor. It has nothing whatsoever to do with morality. It's for the minor's protection. That's why young minors are not allowed to drink, drive, vote, etc. To protect them from themslves and to protect everyone else from them.

As far as laws against more than one spouse are concerned, they are based, I believe, on religion rather than morality.

The Mormons wish to be polygamous, but our Judeo-Christian societal "morals" don't allow it. Well, there are other religions and cultures that have no problem with polygamy, so who are we to declare it immoral?

If a bunch of adults decides, consensually, that they wish to live this way, WHY SHOULD ANYONE CARE? Who are they hurting? Certainly not me. Just like same-sex couples who wish to marry.

As a matter of fact, the idea is not unappealing

Another point is -- have you ever seen kids around their parents? They're absolutely appauled at seeing their parents' romantic life; they think it's disgusting to see their parents kissing or even giving them advice. Children/teenagers usually take advice and adapt from their FRIENDS and people outside their family. They rarely ever grow as their parents are, they don't want to even hear about their parents' sex life... So I doubt they'd learn from people they don't really even want to hear about when it comes to this subject.

yeah good point anthony, is truth kids and teenagers don´t share that kind of things with the parents or talk about it,in almost all the cases, but like u say, they talk with their friends or others about it and that´s social conections help them, to create its own belifs and to make desicions in the future.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with morality. It's for the minor's protection.
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At one time it was morally acceptable for minors to marry. In fact Mary the Mother of Jesus was thirteen when she gave birth to Jesus

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If a bunch of adults decides, consensually, that they wish to live this way, WHY SHOULD ANYONE CARE? Who are they hurting? Certainly not me. Just like same-sex couples who wish to marry.
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I agree but when they want to change the meaning of a well established institution. I don't agree.

Why is murder against the law? It is morally wrong is'nt it

What you are referring to is pre-puberty adoulecance behavior. What I am talking about will happen years prior to that. Let me ask you two questions.

1.At what age were you when you can remember that man & women marry as husband and wife?

2. At what age were you when you first heard of homosexuality?

I was young at both ages -- but even in the late-teen years, such as 16-17, children/teens STILL don't adapt to their parents. They adapt to what's going around in platonic/friendship surroundings. You develop homosexuality at a early-teen age, and that's a time when you're not really all that into the surroundings in your family. At no point when you're in the development age is it normal for children to adapt as to their parents, it's always outside of the family.

So are you saying that your sexuality is developed during your teen years outside you family envoirment.

There's no developing outside your genes -- your genes determine your sexuality. My point is surroundings don't change your sexuality. But when you do discover your homosexual [for homosexuals] it's moreso in the younger teen years [14-15-16], when kids don't adapt to their parents and they moreso do with their friends. Genes is the main reason -- their surroundings is just a second reason and more offered proof.

i think that it is a mix of both things, because human being has sexuality from the birth and the experiences during all those years are forming the way to be related around the sexuality .

See I definitly think that your prefrences can be influenced. I don't dissagree with it being pre-ordained with your genes, but there are quite a few undecided individuals out there waiting to be influenced.

The point of my two questions was based on exposure to one envoirment for a number of years prior to learning about the other prefrence. I would assume that most children learn of marriage from observing there mommy & daddy from the point they learn to do everthing. There is probbibly a span of well over 10 years before that individual is introduced to and understands homosexuality.

Reverse the scales, does that child turn out the same being subjected to mommy & mommy or daddy & daddy day after day.

Also your genetic point is well taken. How many individual are influenced to think they are straight because of the enviorment that they are raised in only to be confused and learn at a later in life what there true sexual prefrence is.

There are many things that are morally wrong that are against the law
But that's not the reason these things are against the law.

The reason is that acts such as murder interfere with the rights of others. The morality is incidental.

Isn't adultery morally wrong? It's not against the law.
Isn't it against the law to drive through a stop sign? There's nothing "morally" wrong with that.

I agree with Don Pope. God made us men so we can put our banana on the girl's puppy, and not put it on another man's nasty hairy ass.

God also made everyone with two ears, two eyes, and one mouth. The intent being to listen and observe twice as much as you speak. I recommend more in your case.

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

You know I wouldn't believe half of this if I didn't read this myself.

Sad times when some people think the way they do.
I think it is the closed minds and that their one thought is the only real way things should be.