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Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694114
02/03/13 01:34 PM
02/03/13 01:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 636
2
22 Offline
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22  Offline
2
Underboss
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 636
Don't agree with you one bit there Gizmo,first of all I don't know Dicknose so I took his word for it like a lot of others did.No.2 SC keeps an eye on him anyway having already suspended him at least once and then reamed him for something else he did last week.You know on these boards you expect people to act like adults,yeah some kidding and testy jabs are ok but I don't see absolutley nothing,I mean ZERO funny about people waiting for this verdict and then he pulls what he does.It's over,I'm in good standing here,converse with everybody,made some friends,next.

Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694133
02/03/13 04:06 PM
02/03/13 04:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 367
J
Jose Offline
Capo
Jose  Offline
J
Capo
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 367
No verdict on Super Bowl Sunday - this is a joke

Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694278
02/04/13 05:13 PM
02/04/13 05:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
F
FrankMazola Offline
Underboss
FrankMazola  Offline
F
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
Question on the 'no show'. Well, 'no shows' in general. What is the crime in paying someone for a no show job. I mean, provided the employer wasn't extorted, where is the crime? This is especially true of Ligambi's specific "no show". After all, he got the company this cash cow account. Doesn't that warrant continuing commissions in the form of paychecks?

The union benefits? Maybe. But if Ligambi is a dues paying member, then where is the fraud here?

I'm probably being semi naive here but I don't see how the "Top Job" job should be illegal (provided the owner consented to it).


F. Mazola, Esq.
Re: philly update [Re: FrankMazola] #694279
02/04/13 05:38 PM
02/04/13 05:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: FrankMazola
Question on the 'no show'. Well, 'no shows' in general. What is the crime in paying someone for a no show job. I mean, provided the employer wasn't extorted, where is the crime? This is especially true of Ligambi's specific "no show". After all, he got the company this cash cow account. Doesn't that warrant continuing commissions in the form of paychecks?

The jobs are illegal because the recipients are getting pensions and insurance PAID FOR by the otherwise working members of the local. As a result, over time the rank and file members of the union end up with crappier and crappier benefits. It's union corruption, plain and simple.

Honestly, Frank, why is that so hard to understand? I mean, I'm sorry for the rant and all, but as you know I was a Teamster and eventually a delegate for 25 years. I've seen the decline of the benefits firsthand and I've also seen what the loss of benefits have done to the working class families in the union.

And for what? So some Goombah can get his benefits paid free while he sits on his lazy ass and some poor working schmuck pours fucking concrete or drives a truck all fucking day?

I don't really give a shit about the gambling and that other crap. As a matter of fact, I don't give a shit about the Philly family at all. They're a joke at this point and even the Philly locals know it. But these charges get under my skin because I spent a lifetime in service to organized labor.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: philly update [Re: pizzaboy] #694287
02/04/13 05:55 PM
02/04/13 05:55 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
F
FrankMazola Offline
Underboss
FrankMazola  Offline
F
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
Okay okay, leaching off the union is morally wrong... it contributes to devolving union benefits. You answered my question.


F. Mazola, Esq.
Re: philly update [Re: FrankMazola] #694288
02/04/13 05:58 PM
02/04/13 05:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
No problem, Buddy smile.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694313
02/04/13 07:27 PM
02/04/13 07:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 367
J
Jose Offline
Capo
Jose  Offline
J
Capo
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 367
Still no verdict after Monday .. wonder what the judge is waiting for...

Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694336
02/04/13 08:41 PM
02/04/13 08:41 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,845
cheech Offline OP
Underboss
cheech  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,845
whole thing is a joke, if this isnt a hung jury or a mistrial i dont know what is...not sure after 20 days of deliberations how u can come up with a guilty verdict...must be some reasonable doubt or this would have been over


When Interpol?
Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694337
02/04/13 08:48 PM
02/04/13 08:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 367
J
Jose Offline
Capo
Jose  Offline
J
Capo
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 367
If I am the defense team I would be pressuring the hell out of Robreno to call mistrial and release my fawking clients. And remember every day this thing isn't called is another day some may be losing out on some freedom with Nicodemo so close from turning - how much money has been spent on this trial for a few gambling charges , no violence at all is absurd ... Let them go!

Last edited by Joselevens; 02/04/13 09:13 PM.
Re: philly update [Re: pizzaboy] #694346
02/04/13 09:43 PM
02/04/13 09:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,610
In exile watching star wars an...
S
Skinny Offline
X
Skinny  Offline
X
S
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,610
In exile watching star wars an...
Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: FrankMazola
Question on the 'no show'. Well, 'no shows' in general. What is the crime in paying someone for a no show job. I mean, provided the employer wasn't extorted, where is the crime? This is especially true of Ligambi's specific "no show". After all, he got the company this cash cow account. Doesn't that warrant continuing commissions in the form of paychecks?

The jobs are illegal because the recipients are getting pensions and insurance PAID FOR by the otherwise working members of the local. As a result, over time the rank and file members of the union end up with crappier and crappier benefits. It's union corruption, plain and simple.

Honestly, Frank, why is that so hard to understand? I mean, I'm sorry for the rant and all, but as you know I was a Teamster and eventually a delegate for 25 years. I've seen the decline of the benefits firsthand and I've also seen what the loss of benefits have done to the working class families in the union.

And for what? So some Goombah can get his benefits paid free while he sits on his lazy ass and some poor working schmuck pours fucking concrete or drives a truck all fucking day?

I don't really give a shit about the gambling and that other crap. As a matter of fact, I don't give a shit about the Philly family at all. They're a joke at this point and even the Philly locals know it. But these charges get under my skin because I spent a lifetime in service to organized labor.


Imo- the no show and the video poker biz take over are the only things worthy of jail time. In this case that is...we all know these guys are guilty as sin.

Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694350
02/04/13 09:48 PM
02/04/13 09:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Dapper_Don Offline
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Dapper_Don  Offline
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Brooklyn, New York
The defense hasnt been on the judge's ass calling for a mistrial because they probably figured its in their best interest for the jury to reach a verdict on these charges (hopefully not guilty) so then double jeopardy rules come into effect and the govt cant charge them again for these same crimes, if for example Nicodemo were to flip and a new superseding indictment were released with murder charges next to these charges. That would present an even tougher situation for the defendants to win. Usually when mob guys are charges in an indictment with murder charges, 95% of the time something will stick even if the murder will not.

Plus lawyers are expensive, some of these guys who are paying for their lawyers would probably want to get a verdict in this trial to get their moneys worth.

It's all in the judge's court right now, it will get to a point where he will realize that progress will not be made and make a decision then. Right now, the jury continues to ask to see certain pieces of evidence which would make one conclude that they are actively deliberating the charges in detail.

Last edited by Dapper_Don; 02/04/13 10:04 PM.

Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, don't they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the water's fine.


Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694358
02/04/13 10:01 PM
02/04/13 10:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,769
Massachusetts, USA
1
123JoeSchmo Offline
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Massachusetts, USA
They better be deliberating every fucking ounce of evidence if it's taking them this long to reach a verdict. Ligambi's and co gotta be banging their heads against the wall


"Don't ever go against the family again. Ever"- Michael Corleone
Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694361
02/04/13 10:10 PM
02/04/13 10:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 367
J
Jose Offline
Capo
Jose  Offline
J
Capo
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 367
I would think they are going nuts also but most of them have done long stretches in their days - Moussie basically half his life - Borgesi basically counting his hours now - rat Monacello discredited on the stand

Re: philly update [Re: Jose] #694432
02/05/13 12:23 PM
02/05/13 12:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
T
Tally Offline
Wiseguy
Tally  Offline
T
Wiseguy
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19

Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694444
02/05/13 12:51 PM
02/05/13 12:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 367
J
Jose Offline
Capo
Jose  Offline
J
Capo
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 367
We'll see what direction they go in now ... Should be interesting - cant imagine they send the jury back

Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694447
02/05/13 01:01 PM
02/05/13 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,610
In exile watching star wars an...
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Skinny Offline
X
Skinny  Offline
X
S
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,610
In exile watching star wars an...
If i was a philly book id be taking action on this trial...

Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694448
02/05/13 01:01 PM
02/05/13 01:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,610
In exile watching star wars an...
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Skinny Offline
X
Skinny  Offline
X
S
Underboss
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,610
In exile watching star wars an...
If i was a philly book id be taking action on this trial...

Re: philly update [Re: Jose] #694449
02/05/13 01:03 PM
02/05/13 01:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
T
Tally Offline
Wiseguy
Tally  Offline
T
Wiseguy
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
Didn't realize that a judge could accept partial verdicts.

John P. Martin

"Judge gives phillymob jurors the option of returning partial verdict this afternoon ...."

Last edited by Tally; 02/05/13 01:04 PM.
Re: philly update [Re: Tally] #694451
02/05/13 01:12 PM
02/05/13 01:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: Tally
Didn't realize that a judge could accept partial verdicts.

Sure he can. It's possible (but not likely) that they've been hung up about one guy or even one count on one guy all this time. So don't be shocked if it comes out that they voted Ligambi (or someone else) guilty (or not guilty fot that matter) two days into this thing.

If I'm one of the top guys, I'm still concerned about getting convicted of something. The witnesses were all bottom feeding lowlifes and junkies, but the tapes were pretty damning. Time will tell. And I've been wrong before.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: philly update [Re: pizzaboy] #694452
02/05/13 01:19 PM
02/05/13 01:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
T
Tally Offline
Wiseguy
Tally  Offline
T
Wiseguy
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
Thanks Pizzaboy.

I guess a partial verdict is better than no verdict at this point. Jury must be frustrated as hell.

Re: philly update [Re: Skinny] #694455
02/05/13 01:20 PM
02/05/13 01:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
F
FrankMazola Offline
Underboss
FrankMazola  Offline
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NJ
Originally Posted By: Skinny
If i was a philly book id be taking action on this trial...


Good luck handicapping that one.


F. Mazola, Esq.
Re: philly update [Re: FrankMazola] #694456
02/05/13 01:25 PM
02/05/13 01:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,571
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Scorsese Offline
Underboss
Scorsese  Offline
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,571
i think even george anastasia getting bored.

Gangsters and 'Gangstas' In Federal Court Trials

By George Anastasia
For Bigtrial.net


Kaboni Savage
There are gangsters and then there are 'gangstas.'

The difference was seven floors apart in the U.S. Courthouse in Philadelphia today.

On the 15th floor a jury continued to deliberate without reaching a verdict in the racketeering conspiracy trial of mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi and six co-defendants. By most accounts, they would be described as the gangsters.

Meanwhile, on the eighth floor, a different jury heard opening arguments in the racketeering trial of convicted North Philadelphia drug kingpin Kaboni Savage and three co-defendants.

In underworld and law enforcement circles, Savage, once described by a top Philadelphia police official as "pure evil," would carry the gangsta label.

The Savage case involves 12 murders, including the October 2004 firebombing of a North Sixth Street rowhome in which six people, including four children, were killed. Save and co-defendants Robert Merritt and Steven Northington face possible death sentences if convicted.

Assistant U.S. Attorney David Troyer, one of the prosecutors in the case, told the jury this morning that Kaboni Savage ordered that bombing in an attempt to intimidate and silence Eugene "Twin" Coleman, a former drug-dealing associate who had begun cooperating against hm.

Coleman's mother, Marcella, 54, was killed in the early morning fire along with Coleman's 15-month old son. The four other victims, a woman and three children, were also related to Coleman. The woman was his cousin. The children were two nephews aged 15 and 12, and a niece, age 10.

The firebombing has been described as one of the most horrorific examples of witness intimidation in the Philadelphia drug underworld, an underworld where witnesses and their families are frequently targeted.

"No witness, no crime," Troyer said Savage told an associate on one of hundreds of secretly recorded conversations gathered by the FBI during a lengthy investigation into the 37-year-old cocaine dealer.

Savage, a former professional boxer, is already serving a 30-year sentence for a 2005 conviction for drug dealing. It was while awaiting trial in that case, authorities say, that he ordered the firebombing.

"He ruled by fear, by intimidation and by murder," said Troyer who in a two-hour opening statement played snippets of some of the tapes the jury will hear during the trial and quoted from others, including a comment after the firebombing when Troyer said Savage had learned that Coleman, who was in federal custody, was going to be escorted by federal marshals to the funerals of those who had been killed.

"When they take him to the funeral they should stop off and get some barbecue sauce and pour it on them burned bitches," Savage allegedly said.

Two of Savage's co-defendants, his sister Kidada, and Robert Merritt, have also been charged in the firebombing. A fourth co-defendant, Steven Northington is accused of carrying out other murders on Savage's orders.

Eugene Coleman is expected to be one of several former drug associates to take the stand during the trial which is scheduled to last about three months. Lamont Lewis, another associate who has admitted to taking part in the firebombing, is also cooperating.

Lewis has said that he and Merritt threw two cans of gasoline into the rowhome and fired shots into the house to insure that no one would attempt to flee.

"In seconds the house was a blazing inferno," Troyer told the jury. He said as Lewis and Merritt walked away, "they heard a woman scream."

But in his opening arguments, Christian Hoey, Savage's court-appointed lawyer, urged the jury not to rush to judgment based on emotion. Hoey called the firebombing deaths "a tragedy of epic proportions."

He said there was no dispute about what happened. But he cautioned the jury not to accept Lamont Lewis's version of why it happened.

Lewis, he said, has admitted to 11 murders. He called him "an assassin," "a stone-cold killer" and "an iceman." And he contended that Lewis implicated Savage in the firebombing because he knew that's what investigators wanted to hear.

Hoey's account placed Savage as a player, but hardly a kingpin, in a Philadelphia drug underworld populated by treacherous drug dealers with links to govenment, politics and even City Hall. Hoey acknowledged that his client had said many things on tape that were "vulgar" and "outrageous" but he contended that much of it was said out of frustration and anger and was never acted on.

Savage's own words, picked up from phone tapes, prison recordings and a electronic listening device placed in his cell in the Federal Detention Center in Philadelphia are expected to be a big part of the evidence introduced during the case.

Troyer made repeated references to Savage's own words in his opening, sprinkling his two-hour narrative with comments that underscored what he said was Savage's vindictive and violent nature.

Less than a month after the fireboming, Savage continued to rail against cooperators, telling an associate, "I'm just getting started ... The night is still young."

"I'm going to kill everything you love," he allegedly said to another person he thought might be cooperating. And later threatened to kill the cooperator's daughter, boasting, "I gonna blow her little head off. She about five."

"I dream about killing these kids, cutting these kids heads off," Savage said on another tape while ranting about the families of former associates who had turned on him.

Troyer said Savage also threatened federal authorities, including FBI Agent Kevin Lewis, who spearheaded the investigation against him, and an unidentified captain in the detention center where Savage was being held.

Of the captain, Savage was picked up on tape saying, "He gonna die a miserable death ... I'm gonna set him on fire alive and watch him jump around like James Fuckin' Brown ... Douse him with gasoline and set his ass on fire ... That fire's a motherfucker."

Hoey tried to counter in his opening statement by quoting Lamont Lewis who, he said, admitted in one phone conversation before he started cooperating that the feds wanted him to "lie on somebody" in order to get out from under the charges he was facing.

That somebody, Hoey said, was Kaboni Savage.

He also said that Lamont Lewis' claim that he did not know there were children in the house before he firebombed it and that he confronted Kidada Savage over that issue didn't ring true.

Hoey said there were two different witnesses who put the lie to that claim.

A woman, Hoey said, saw Lewis walking away from the porch after setting the house on fire. The woman, Hoey said, said Lewis was alone. Hoey said the woman confronted Lewis, asking him, "Are you crazy? There are kids in that house."

"I don't give a fuck," Hoey said Lamont Lewis replied.

In another conversation, he said, Lamont Lewis told a friend, "People in the house were frying like chickens. I didn't give a fuck."

Hoey also claimed that Lewis walked a few blocks to a friends house after the firebombing and sat on a porch "smoking marijuana and listening to the fire truck sirens." Hoey also said Lewis asked about collecting a $100,000 reward that had been offered in the firebombing case after he decided to cooperate.

"That's like killing your mother and father and then asking the judge for mercy because you're an orphan," Hoey said.

The descriptions of Savage, Lamont Lewis and of six other murders that were also part of the case, took up most of the opening statements today. Lawyers for Kidada Savage, Merritt and Northington will make their openings when the trial resumes tomorrow.

On the 15th floor, meanwhile, the jury in the Ligambi case deliberated for seven more hours without reachng a verdict. The 20 days of deliberations come after a 10-week trial that included testimony and secretly recorded conversations about sports betting, video poker machines and loansharking.

Gangsters and gangstas.

Read more at http://www.bigtrial.net/2013/02/gangsters-and-gangstas-in-federal-court.html#tq7kIdlMzzt1hP4t.99

Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694458
02/05/13 01:26 PM
02/05/13 01:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 367
J
Jose Offline
Capo
Jose  Offline
J
Capo
Joined: Jan 2013
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Does this mean partial verdict is read today ? Little confused

Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694459
02/05/13 01:30 PM
02/05/13 01:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 726
spmob Offline
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Fox news said the judge was giving them an oportunity to deliberate a little more or give the partial verdicts. Willie on the REal Deal said that the partial verdicts are in so I am thinking the partial verdicts are going to get read today.

Re: philly update [Re: Scorsese] #694460
02/05/13 01:31 PM
02/05/13 01:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Kaboni Savage is pure evil. I hope they convict his ass. I think as it stands right now he'll be released while he's still in his 50's. That would be unacceptable. The Government should stop worrying about geriatric gamblers and put every spare dollar they have into making sure that that animal dies in jail.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: philly update [Re: Jose] #694485
02/05/13 03:55 PM
02/05/13 03:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
T
Tally Offline
Wiseguy
Tally  Offline
T
Wiseguy
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 19
Inquirer reporter, Martin.

"Jurors to announce partial verdict in phillymob trial shortly."

Last edited by Tally; 02/05/13 03:56 PM.
Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694486
02/05/13 03:57 PM
02/05/13 03:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,610
In exile watching star wars an...
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Skinny Offline
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Skinny  Offline
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In exile watching star wars an...
😬😬😬😬😬😬😬😬

Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694487
02/05/13 04:05 PM
02/05/13 04:05 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,845
cheech Offline OP
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cheech  Offline OP
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whats a partial verdict?


When Interpol?
Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694489
02/05/13 04:36 PM
02/05/13 04:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,352
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azguy Offline
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I read on-line they will be read at 3'30 eastern time. They told the judge earlier they had verdicts on some counts and were hopelessly deadlocked on others...


"In onore della Famiglia la Famiglia e' aperta"
Re: philly update [Re: cheech] #694495
02/05/13 04:57 PM
02/05/13 04:57 PM
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Posts: 367
J
Jose Offline
Capo
Jose  Offline
J
Capo
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Jurors deadlock on conspiracy charge against uncle joe - acquit on most counts I am hearing

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