Was the number reported in 2007 or actually given by the FBI in 2007?
It's pretty much the same thing. The feds are going to cite the most recent information they have. The statement they made sounded like it was present tense...
"We have 28 made members of the Chicago Outfit roaming in the Chicagoland area."
Originally Posted By: FriedRavioliFarts
Back in 1997 we had the Chicago Crime Commission estimate 70 members. More recently we've had one FBI source cite 50 members, while another one only 25. The feds reportedly released a list of 47 current known Outfit members to the press several years ago. The prosecution cited 28 members during the Family Secrets trial. And Nick Calabrese reportedly identified 60 members.
I'm aware of all this. In fact, I'm the one who has repeatedly cited all this on one forum or another.
The 1997 figure of 70 members was simply an estimate by the CCC.
A poster over on the RD talked about a list of 47 names of Outfit members the FBI released to the local press in 1999. That figure appears to be more exact than the CCC estimate and should probably hold more weight.
50 members were cited by FBI sources in articles in 2000 and 2002. Probably a rounded number close to that more exact 47 figure from 1999.
25 members was cited in a 2005 article and 30 members was cited in a 2007 article. The more specific (i.e. not rounded) figure of 28 members was also cited in 2007.
Despite some discrepancy along the way, I see consistency in the fact that the FBI apparently had a list of 47 specific names in 1999. From that time to 2007, 18 known members had died and 1 had flipped = leaving 28 members.
That 60 members figure was in a small blurb by Chicago Sun Times writer covering the Family Secrets trial. Considering the fact that it's double the information from the FBI, I'm inclined to think that the guy was using "members" in the generic sense, as journalists often do when writing about the mob.
Originally Posted By: Mark
Anybody who follows the Outfit knows that there are always guys (sleepers) that have flown under the radar for decades.
True but it's likely a small number. There's not much of a chance of a third of the family successfully flying under the radar.
Originally Posted By: FrankMazola
Not trying to be a mob apologist or anything but couldn't the 20-30 made guys be DE flatted? Isn't Chicago notorious for NOT making guys that aren't super earners or middle management?
There are a number of possibilities as to why there are reportedly only 25-30 made members in the Outfit. But in the end, the total manpower is comparative to the families in New England, New Jersey, and Philadelphia. The member-to-associate ratio is just a little different in Chicago.
Not that I put much stock in associate estimates put if we're comparing apples to apples...
Originally Posted By: PP
I thought Carlisi was the guy who started the "traditional" making ceremony, is this true?
Others have commented that it was probably Aiuppa.
Originally Posted By: gamms
when was the last bunch of made guys in the windy city?
A guy on the RD said Marcello held a ceremony in 2003 and Sarno had one in 2009. Not sure about the source on that but it's possible. What I take exception to is people using this as a reason to just add an additional 10, 20, or 30 guys to the Outfit's membership. People take those kind of liberties and, before you know it, all sorts of numbers are being quoted and they're eventually taken as fact through sheer repetition.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
