De Robertis is great bakery, e buonissimo real authentic in my opinion. Also Ferrara's pasticceria is terrific. Both places I love to go after eating at Mulino's.

I'm a baby compared to how old Ferrara's is but Ive been eating there canolis and pinioli but cookies(Soft kind) and nothing in this world beats em !

best cannolis in manhattan.hands down.

at mark. there isnt neccesarily a 'neighborhood don'. what your thinking of is the theory behind 'cosa nostra' itself.dont forget that 'this thing' evolved from the southern italian way of thinking,that rhe government was not to be trustedand to resolve issues yourself.hence,'dons' became 'judges'. so to speak. if you grow up in theneighborhood,you will have friends [or family in my case] that are 'connected'.

ive said it before on here,most 'associates' are one of two things.they are 'hungry' or 'scared'. there is a common misconception that all 'associates' are just 'partners in crime'.many assoxiates are nothing more than a lousy gambler who was slapped around. 'hungry' guys are the ones that do there best to 'shine' they are 'career-minded',so to speak.

what you are thinking of mark, is basically, the idea of a 'made guy's role in the neighborhood.mostly they steal and scam but this is what they are supposed to do. they are 'there' to help you.the fbi will call most of this extortion,but anyways.lol.. there are a thousand situations where a made guy ccan help you. say your behind on your rent.he can loan you money. say you lost your job.he [theoretically] could 'vouch' for you and help you get a job. say you own a different shy some money and you cant pay the vig,he asks the guy to give you an extra week or two.someone owes you money,he collects it. thats the 'idea' of 'cosa nostra'. hope i answered your question mark.

Thanks, sit.

You must really love it, because Ferrara's is about a mile walk from Il Mulino's .

I know what you mean, though. About both places. My family owns some property on West 8th Street, just off Macdougal, so I'm in the West Village at least a few times a month. In my opinion the Il Mulino's on West 3rd is one of the best Italian restaurants in the entire city. But the one in Florida stinks.

Hard to beat the cannoli at Ferrara's. But Baby John's cannoli at Cafe Palermo beat them out by just a whisker (in my humble opinion). And if you're just a little further uptown, try Veniero's on East 11th .

back in the 70tys that restaurant casa bella was own by michael sabella is that still there and is it still in that family, and i guess al d'arco restaurant is closed, it was pretty famous back then. im guessing all those mob reataurants are probaly owned by big corperations. how far that city changed in 20yrs. anyone see that old school in brooklyn turnt into a mansion on the market for 10mill.

You're preaching to the choir, buddy. I've been here for more than fifty years, but when I post that the neighborhoods are gentrified today, some kid from middle America always wants to tell me what's going on in my own city .

It's not like I'm happy about it, but I'm not in denial about it either. I miss it, but "Old New York" is gone. Time to move on.

Off topic, pmac: Are you from New York?

Not all are.... Interesting thing about Casa Bella though, It's actually a pun on words in Italian it literally means buitiful house but when u split it up it reads "Ca Sabella" dialect for "Here's Sabella!" lol, fun fact

I can't tell you guys how true this statement is. I grew up with a lot of guys who only ended up "with" someone because they couldn't bring themselves to bet against the Jets or the Yankees.

That's how they ended up in the life. And a lot of times, these same brokesters ended up with their buttons. So the next time you think of the "made man" myth of honor and all that, just keep in mind that some of them started out in tremendous hock because they were gambling degenerates.

Clever!

And many high rankers, Jackie D'amico they say has gambled away a ton of money and of course we all know about how Gotti was

I believe that Dominic Truscello, Capo in the Lucchese Family, still runs his crew down there. I am virtually certain that I saw him sitting on a bench on Elizabeth Street with a couple of other guys a few years ago. I sat on a stoop nearby pretending to be on my cellphone so that I could listen to what they were saying. I kid you not that these guys sounded like they were straight out of central casting. Clearly they were not talking about business, but everything else under the sun that you would excpect.

Good to see you back here, Ovation .

I don't doubt that you saw Dom on that block. He was a fixture there all his life. And like I said in an earlier post, a couple guys still own legit restaurants and cafes in the neighborhood. And I mean ALL THE WAY legit. Perry's place is famous; cops and politicians eat there every day, knowing full well who owns the place.

But getting back to Dom, he owned a cafe near Elizabeth for ages, but it closed a few years ago. He may have been hanging out and bullshitting with visitors, but probably nothing more than that. Plus, it makes total sense that he'd be the last guy to leave the neighborhood. He was there all his life and he must be close to 80. My Dad is 83 now, and I think they're relatively close in age.

I can tell you for sure that his crew is no longer centered in that neighborhood. None of them are. The ridiculous gentrification aside, Gotti made the neighborhood a lightning rod with his ridiculous Tuesday night meetings. The truth is, the other families started pulling out of that neighborhood not long after Gotti went away for good.

Are there many solidly ethnic Italian neighborhoods in NYC / New Jersey anymore? I'm not familiar with the demographics.

In Manhattan, not really. But the outer boroughs still have pockets of Italian neighborhoods. Parts of the East Bronx (where I live in Throggs Neck), parts of Brooklyn and Queens, and certainly Staten Island, which is still heavily Italian American.

As far as Jersey, there are loads of Italian Americans assimilated into the suburbs. But as far as an inner city stronghold, like the one they had in Newark years ago? Not really. That neighbhood is something like 90 percent Black and Latino today.

Times change, demographics change. We're not part of the "new immigration." The fact is, the overwhelming majority of Italian Americans can trace their lineage to the Italians who arrived here between 1880 and 1920. That's an indisputable fact.

Today the majority of those families live in the suburbs, mixed in with other third and fourth generation immigrant groups (Irish, Eastern European Jews, et al.). In short, everyone is starting to look the same .

Why did European immigration just stop? I know some still do but not nearly as much. Think it could ever happen again?

It's the times Nicky. Back in the early 20th century Italians immigrated to the USA due to overpopulation, poor living conditions, and economic woes. Just like everyone else they wanted a better life and found it in America. These days Italy is trying to "keep" the younger population within the country because the older generation is getting larger and no ones making babies anymore. Italy is actually offering dual citizenship to people in the USA, Canada, and brazil who are of Italian descent. Bottom line is you won't ever have that kind of large scale immigration again, especially not from Europe.

I think you have to have a parent that is an Italian citizen in the US for them to have dual citizenship with Italy, no?

Take my kids for example. My husband is not an american citizen, so when my kids were born here in the US, they automatically have dual citizenship with Italy. Is that what you mean?

The laws changed to make room for other immigrant groups. It pretty much began with the Immigration Act of 1924. The country decided that in the interest of fairness, a moratorium of sorts would be put on European immigrants to make room for the future groups (Middle Easterners, South Americans, Miscellaneous Islanders, etc.). For those reasons I doubt it will ever happen again, Nicky.


Well, times are different, JoeSchmo. I agree with you there. But the main reason is the one I posted above. Southern Italy is still so dirt poor that many of those families would jump the fence in a heartbeat if given the chance.


Correct, Carm. They make you jump through hoops now. So your kids are very lucky . Of course if your grandparents were born in Italy and you have some money there are ways to get that dual citizenship .

Yes. Thank you for clearing that up carm. It is true though that Italy is having trouble getting people to have kids? I hear their population is going down dramatically especially within the next 30 years

I can only speak for sicily and even then only can speak for family. And as far as my and my husband's family is concerned....they're like rabbits. I dont even think the ink of the marriage certificate is dry and I'm buying baby gifts to take over. Big big families, lots of kids and quick...one right after another. But I can't speak for the entire country. It is true, though, that out of the archaeic cities that I go to, they are going to university more and more, becoming educated, and getting married later in life and even living together now before marriage. But not where I go. lol

And another thing, these people are happy. They wouldn't leave their country for anything. Life is hard, work is hard to come by, but they're happy just being with each other and eating. lol
If you go where I stay, you'd think it was nothing short of the ghetto. My husband only came here to get away from the wars in the 90's. It was getting too bad and too much heat, so they left. The wars aren't happening that way anymore, so people are content to stay put and feel safe.

PB sometimes I sense like a little sadness that NY has changed so much over time to how it is today? I don't mean the mob element, but just the old neighbourhoods etc. Iv'e only been there once but I too in a way wanted to find NY like the movies and books I read, times of the 50s, 60s, 70s.

Oh I'll do that walk an love it, also a cab ride is always cool. Mulino's is great and when I'm eatin in Manhattan I go all out so a drink an app before at Dove Parlour then Mulino's then Ferrara's. My kinda night.

Dude, when I was a kid in the 70's, I could not wait to cut school, take the train to Grand Central, and walk to 42nd St. The sex shops, 3 card monte games on the street, hookers everywhere, man it was a freakin' education! God I miss it. Guiliani wiped it all away. Clean city now. Manhatten anyway.

Sure it makes me sad, Nicky. Not so much for the mob element. I grew up with that crap all my life. You get your fill after so many years. But it's the way things changed in general. You take the working class out of New York and it's not New York anymore. It saddens and angers me at the same time, buddy.


Yeah, Giuliani cleaned it up, but it's Bloomberg who took it upon himself to "brand" the city. Sure, Manhattan will always be a tourist spot. Greatest city in the world and all that. But if it were up to Bloomie (and thank God it's not TOTALLY up to him), this place would be all movie stars and Yuppies .

SilentPartnerz----I assumed that you were originally a New Yorker. Where did you grow up? I ask because we must be relatively close in age. I turned 53 a few months ago.

If they gave Irish and Italians permission to immigrate to the U.S. again do you think they would immigrate in the huge numbers they did or not?

When I went to little italy I was shocked on how bad it got. I knew it wasn't as Italian as it was but I didn't think it was to that extent. All I saw was 2 pizza places (rays and lombardis) and one bakery (forget the name). All it is now is upscale shops and boutiques, including in the former spot of the ravenite. It kinda pissed me off knowing how it once was and it has to be much worse for New Yorkers seeing that. Definitely no mob presence there anymore.

The one on the corner is ferraras. Very good chocolate cannolis there. As far as mob presence, its there u just need to know who has what. No "cadillacs double parked" like you see in chicago, you flashy bastards

How many years do you think until little Italy will be completely gone?