Watching the movie last night the idea dawned on me, that Tom was weak. He tried to have Sonny do the deal with Sollozzo even after he thought Vito could die. He showed emotion too much when he should have kept it under control, like when Sollozzo told him that Vito was dead and other times with Mike. He and allowed Mike to walk all over him and push him out of the insider part of family business. In deleted scenes from the script for Part II he was having an affair with Sandra. I don't get the feeling that he was weak in the book as much as in the films but I do think that the thought that Tom was a weak person is always there. Maybe it's because of his Irish/German background. Sonny was right, he needed a Sicilian consigliere.

I am not saying that this makes him a bad character since I think Tom is one of the most fascinating characters of the movies but I did notice the weakness in Tom when I watched the movie last night.

Any thoughts?

I thought Tom kept his cool during his kidnap. Tom doesn't have a choice to be strong because he will never be the Don.

I believe Tom was the most even headed man in the family, only Mike was better with his emotions than Tom. He was simply thinking business when he wanted to make the deal, he would have made the family money and on top of that avoided a war, so in that thinking Sonny was the onr who needed to handle his emotions. Tom also knew his plac when it came to the family, he did what the Corleone in charge at the time told him to do, which most the time was to give his opinion on a matter. The only people in the family Tom was weak around was Sonny Mike and Vito, everyone was his junior in the family.
Have you seen Part 2? Tom was the don the whole time Mike was running around the country and in Cuba.

I don't think Tom was weak. Not everyone in the family needs to be a brute or a tough guy. Apparently, like anyone else in his position, he organized or passed on orders for murder and mayhem.

Tom had no problem having violent disputes with Sonny and didn't mind occasionally disagreeing with Vito. Those two people loved him as a brother and son. Michael did not.

It probably became clear to Tom even before Fredo's demise that it was not out of the realm of possibility for Michael to kill him. (In book he says this explicitly ) So of course the relationship between Tom and Michael will be different.

Tom's removal as official consigliere was ultimately Vito's idea though after Vito's death Michael kept that decision I think more as a way to punish and control Tom than any sort of honest business decision.

I thnk your all wrong about Mike and Tom's relationship, Mike loved Tok but it was a tough love. As far as being bumped down Mike knew Tom would always be loyal to his family for all they have done for him so really it didnt matter if he had a title or not because he could and would still help the family regardless. Mike left tye famil to Tom for christ sake, how much love, trust, and respect does thwt show?


Why do you think Mike would wantt to punish Tom? Because he wasnt a real Corleone? Yea Mike and Tom didnt hung and kiss everytime they saw each other but Mike was a better don because of Tom, and Mike knew that as well as dd Tom.

Tom wasn't weak. His training was as a lawyer, and lawyers are trained to be conciliators, to work out practical solutions before going to trial (or in the Corleones' case, shooting). Vito chose him for his brains, his loyalty to the family, and because his even temperament was essential in containing Sonny's hot-headedness and his penchant for violence. He wasn't a good match for Michael, who didn't have Sonny's problem and was his own consigliere. Michael was cruel to him at times, but as we saw, when the chips were down (i.e., after Vito's death in GF and after the Tahoe shooting in II), he trusted Tom.

If Tom had a weakness it was that he wasn't Sicilian and didn't think like a Sicilian. IMO, he should have seen that Carlo would look for vengeance (in the novel, he realizes that he was "no fit wartime consigliere--old Genco would have smelled a rat"). Michael may have (unfairly) blamed him for Sonny's death.

At some points Tom is about this close to being asked to shine the shoes of Neri and Rocco.

Ok, maybe exaggeration but I think that Michael's relationship with Tom, and increasingly with everyone, was purely transactional, not functional. It was the biggest difference between Michael and Vito and why even though both men were, for lack of a better word, evil, we see Michael's decay and fall as tragic.

That little speech Michael gave Tom before leaving was certainly designed to play to Tom's weak points because at that point in time, Michael had no choice but to trust him. It wasn't out of love but cold calculation. I don't think Michael believed anything he said about brotherhood with Tom. The gratuitously cold way he treated Tom upon his return was I think, his true feeling towards Tom.

There's no question that Michael's homily reeked of insincerity and was designed to play Tom like a violin ("I always wanted to be thought of as a brother by you," clearly indicating that Tom didn't believe Michael thought of him as a brother). Perhaps Michael didn't have any choice but Tom at that point. But, Michael might have thought that, because of his coldness to Tom, he could have been in on the Tahoe shooting as vengeance. Then again, Michael probably figured (correctly) that Tom's loyalty would override any plots for vengeance. The family was all he had in life.

Don't forget, Tom was also able to be tough, and sometimes even cold-hearted:
He was present when Carlo was murdered.
He refused to take Tessio of the hook and gave the nod to Cicci.
He was telling Geary all that bs in front of a murdered girl: "This girl has no family, nobody knows that she worked here. It'll be as if she never existed."
He made Pentangeli commit suicide.

I think you all are wrong about Mike and Tom's relationship. Mike knew no matter what he did or what he told Tom to do that he would always be loyal to te family and nothing else. He lovd Tom for all he had done for his family. Why do you think he got mad before the talks about Roth? Because he thought Tom was slowly working his way out the family wnd was hurt. Mike would never kill Tom and leaned on him during his whole life.

You're right about the first part of your posts: Tom's loyalty to Vito and Vito's memory was undiminshed.

You're wrong about the second part. As others have posted, Michael used everybody including Tom. As Michael saw things, Fredo was weak and stupid, Connie was used by men and otherwise useless tot he family, and Tom had not protected the family as he was supposed to do as Consigliere. Michael held him in contempt.

Tom was available to be used however Mike wanted, this was why he was so valuable to him. He fit into Mike structure perfectly. I dont think Tom was ever punished one time, the move to replace him with Carlo in Vages was simply a act to play Carlo. Once Mike got to Vages he wanted to use Tom as a legal front man so ue kept him away from the bs of the family until he had to lewve the family to the one man he trusted completely Tom, after this as far as im concerned he went back to consigliere.

I was re-watching GF for about the two-thousandth time this week. Tom was plenty assertive with Sonny--shouting at him, almost getting physical with him. But he was much more subdued, even submissive, with Michael. That's consistent with his background--Tom was a true brother to Sonny, but not to Michael. Sonny would tolerate back-talk, not Michael.

Also, anyone's temperment tends to condition's one's response to them. Micahel was subdued and more amenable to reason which was Tom's forte.

Interesting that when Sonny takes charge, the Don's office looks messy, and when they discuss what to do, Tom (copying Sonny) sits relaxed as if he's on a beach party. He would never behave that way in front of Michael or Vito.

In a different time i believe Sonny would have been a hell of a don, not during a war though.

In the novel Tom thinks that the Don's usually neat office was taking on the look of a rented room. They even ate in there.

Tom may not have been a war time consigliere, but even more so Sonny was not a wartime Don. He was wreckless and hot headed but his biggest flaw was that he only took one move at a time and didnt know what was coming next. He was a one thought at a tike type Don.

Tom wasnt weak. Tom was a Consigliere and a very good lawyer in New York. Tom also set up many operations for the Corleone Family in Las Vegas and Florida.

Interesting...I need to watch this movie again.