See that sentiment you two share on BEGINS baffles, for I was enthralled by that origins story, crafted with an appropriate larger than life stage. I know people wonder why these superhero movies need to have an origin story, but honestly when they're done right, they're pure storytelling magic. Even if it's an origin as well-known even to casual audiences as say Batman's origin. (I liken it to Jesus. There's some stories with tapestries worth weaving.)

I like that we see the evolution of Batman not just in getting his ass-kicking skills and costume, but specifically his ethical code. That's something taken for granted, because Batman came from a children-aimed literary medium of comic books. Superheroes didn't kill people. (I'm sure Punisher gave those old-timer cartoonists a stroke.)

But if you question that one rule of integrity, even when considering everything bad in the comics that's happened to Batman and his pseudo-family. I mean why doesn't he break Joker's neck after he murdered the 2nd Robin and paralyzed Batgirl? Wouldn't you? I would. I mean enough is enough, hell Gotham City would celebrate like Americans did after Osama Bin Laden got toe tagged. But really, why doesn't Batman lose his cool? Hell why doesn't he turn Gotham into a police state? What needs does he have of the (usually useless) Gotham cops?

Because as an idealized ubermensch American creation, he believes in Democracy and it's essnetial balance of law & order with a free open society. Yes he's a vigilante, but he doesn't kickass to feel better about himself or to defeat some rival ideology. In his mind, he tries to bring harmony back to that "balance" bent out of shape by the criminals and influences who've hijacked the governmental legal system for their own gain at the public's loss. It's why he doesn't kill criminals, he beats the hell out of them and leaves them for the police to collect. It's why people are incorrect to call him a fascist, he's rather democratic, disciplined and civilized for a vigilante.

It's why I loved that storyline of Bruce Wayne joining the League of Shadows (or League of Assassins from the comics), a secret army of vigilantes. I mean that's good, right? Who isn't for killing those bad evil people who get away with it?

Until of course he (and the audience) realize that this League is actually Al Qaeda, willing to kill thousands of innocent people in the name of "justice." That's why Batman is the hero, and they're the villains.

Tim Burton's first BATMAN movie is strange, like I don't care for it but it has so many elements I do admire. From Danny Elfman's soundtrack (and Prince's songs) to Keaton's Bruce Wayne to Nicholson having fun, etc. But the movie feels sorta mindless really, like a saturday morning cartoon on autopilot. I never really cared what happened. As an empty (but brilliant) aesthetics visual parade, it reminds me of DICK TRACY.

Plus personally, I just don't like Joker given an origin story or treated as a person. I prefered how Heath Ledger portrayed his Joker: not a person, but an absolutist in crime, evil, terrorism, whatever term you prefer. He's more powerful by that regard.

Wait scratch that metaphor. BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES was a saturday morning (and weekday afternoon) cartoon, and what exceptional storytelling, fun and usually quite engaging writing with even some deeply moving moments. I cared about Batman and well everything else happening in that show. (MASK OF THE PHANTASM is a worth-seeing movie based off that show. Better than the Burton movies.)

Of course I did like Burton's BATMAN RETURNS, one of the more insane summer blockbusters ever produced. It's not for everybody (unlike most summer releases try to be), but it's so perversely wacky in it's camp. Pfeiffer's Catwoman is able to drag some sort of interesting story out of Batman personally, so I liked RETURNS. (That scene of Penguin biting that dude's nose off freaked me out as a kid.)