Earlier you guys were talking about classy,Frankie Flowers died because he didn't show no respect to Scarfo,according to Scarfo.That was totally not necessary,same with Salvie.To me the Billy Veasey hit could have been avoided,what did he do.He got ambushed heading to work one morning.John Veasey was out in the open long after the Ciancaglini[Michael] hit but they were afraid of him.Stevie Mazzone never actually participated in Billy Veasey's hit because he knew one day John-John would be out for revenge.I mean Billy Veasey wasn't a player like those guys were,he might have done things here and there[bookmaking] but nothing substancual.

Well, I dont consider it a "break" when the Philly guys have their own voices on tape which is the situation with Licata, Ligambi, Fazzini, and im sure some other tapes the feds have yet to release. From the tapes that have been released, they are pretty self-explanatory with mentions of murder (Gongs) and making ceremonies. You dont need Skins testifying to corroborate that, just put past defectors like Caprio, Milano, and Bent Finger Lou on the stand.

Regardless, these guys have a big hill to climb if they think they have a shot at beating this case.

None of them are beating their cases. Their only hope is that they can prove the evidence weak and/or get an acquittal on the most serious charges. Then they won't be sentenced too harshly.

Joseph Merlino will soon rise to power once again. Bringing back the glorious days of disorganization and confusion. Then he'll demise will come by the hand of the Federals!

The Legend continues...

This is what I hate. If Joey hasn't taken a page out of Ligambi's book, people are going to start getting hit again. Philly doesn't need that.

@22 I once cited the Frankie Flowers murder as unnecessarily harsh, even for the Scarfo era. I got shut down for that for some reason. Anyway, in Caramandi's book, they basically shook down D'Alfonso's friends, hoping that D'alfonso would bail them out, and thus, finally paying the Scarfo street tax. Of course, he tried to be reasonable and negotiate for his friend's safety rather than buying it, and that was the last chance Scarfo gave him.

scarfo was within his rights, everyone in the area was paying, flowers had been warned before, so he got his.

Hey 22, i did say that a few guys that i see around are classy but by no means would i ever consider that pyscopath scarfo a classy guy! He was far from classy. A few of his guys were actually classy guys like Joey Punge and Salvi Testa but not Scarfo and most certainly not Leonetti,Carramondi or those drunks Tommy Del and Yogi Merlino

Are they all just going to take a blanket plea deal? 5-7 for Ligambi, 3-5 for tge rest of the crew? Are those numbers off base?

That would be wise, but are the prosecutors offering plea deals?

so far i hear of a few offers that were rejected like Luccibella 63 months and also Staino 63 months. I would say that those number are probably on par but Ligambi might get less than a couple of the other guys cause of priors

I got you,I know what you mean,I realize a lot of them are everyday guys

Skinny Joe is bad for Philadelphia... I wonder why he doesn't see that flashy guys don't last long in the top spot? There's a reason why it takes the quiet ones years to get caught up with...

i give skinny joe credit he's a mutilple murder and boss whatever, and he's living good at a young age in florida for a mobster's age. he got one over on them but that doesnt make me feel like he's not gonna have a heartatack any day dont know how you can live wit the stress. the shooting of that guy on the federal courthouse steps thats more crazy then gotti killing paul in midtown.

hey pmac refresh my mind on this one cause i dont ever remember an incident like that happening

He must mean when Rocco Turra got shot on the way to court,but that was back in 98 I think,and that was in front of his house.

22, it was tony turra who got clipped by virgilio when he was going to court, rocco turra flipped.

old head, you're calling testa classy? the guy was an animal, a serial killer in his own right, and at the end of the day no one was trying to save this guy. People make this guy out to me some martyr, but he was no better than scarfo or leonetti or anyone else. He played his hand wrong and got burned, wasn't the first and wasn't the last.

ya it was aguy named turra he was caught on tape saying he wanted and was gonna threw a grenade threw merlino home window. i think he was with that south philly gang 10 and suttin. the way i read it was he was killed close to the court house on the day of his trial, but if it was virglio who did it he died case closed right? him and his kid were huge drug dealers i think. and his kid hated merlino.

10th & O gang and yeah the kid louie hated joey after he caught a beating for not kicking up. Virgilio died five years ago, but if someone close to joey rolled then the feds could easily tie joey to it.

damm they offered staino 63 months and he doesnt have a previous conviction, IMHO that doesnt bode well for the rest of the guys

Where was that cited they offered staino that deal??? His wife cuts my hair? You have to serve what is it 85% of your prison time in the federal system, I like how they make that a rule because it seems that even though some of these crimes carry harsh mandatory minimums they're never applied

^^^im going by what southphilly old head posted, that staino deal hasnt been reported by GA or cited online as of yet.

Hey i happened to know the Turras pretty good and they were hugsters that got into the drug business. They sold fruit for most of their lives at fruit stands and worked at the fruit and produce for some time.Louis which was Tonys son made alot of money dealing drugs and was a really tough kid. When is father who was in a wheel chair got killed in front of his house on his way to court i believe Louis hung himself 2 weeks prior to that while in jail in new york cause his uncle Rocky turned states evidence, also on tape was Tony talking about what his son ought to do to Joeys house.

Testa didnt play his hand the wrong way that pyscopath Scarfo was jealous of a Wall Street article about Salvi Testa saying he was the next in line and that he had all this power and Scarfo flipped. He was as loyal a guy that would ever be in the mob as anyone ever. Scarfo was a jackass and no i would have never said that to his face in the 80s cause you would disappear

Hey Dap if you get a chance to look at the indictment you will see that Staino has the most counts in the indictment at 29 and now Ligambi has 9 with the 2 extra counts that he just got

gotcha, but still staino has no criminal record...hopefully by xmas we know what kinds of sentences these guys got

Iknow with no priors and 29 counts an offer of 63 was turned down probabaly looking for less. What do you think the low guys with only 2 counts and no priors will get?

If you get a certain number of counts for the same crime, it seems a lot of attorneys get a "Noele Process" or something like that from looking at dockets I've seen that at least in state court...but I guess since these are high profile guys they're going to get hit hard for petty things.

The old rule was you only had to serve 60% of your time and you could be paroled.

Old head right about the Turra's,besides Mikey''pen-knife''I think Mazzone and Borgesi were also charged with that [in the 2001 trial],in fact I'm positive they were but they beat it.Mikey Viriglio was never charged.Yeah apparantley "Skinny joey'' and Louis Turra really had a hate for one another,especially after that beating outside the after hours club Joey's guys put on Turra.also what Chucky was saying about Salvie,I heard that too,like on that one occasion where they said he wanted to barge right in the house on Thanksgiving Day to whack somebody[I can't recall] but Faffy talked him out of it.

Hey 22 i might of missed some things about Salvi, it was almost 30 years ago. I guess i always felt bad they way he went out so i had a soft spot for him. Whenever he was around he was a nice guy to everybody almost if you didnt know he was a gangster you would think he was just a regular guy. Im sure he had a bad side tho.