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Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: Dapper_Don] #635778
02/20/12 05:11 PM
02/20/12 05:11 PM
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GerryLang Offline OP
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GerryLang  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
something interesting about cutolo i found

"On the first day of the federal case against Persico, prosecutors quickly established a motive for the killing of Cutolo, whose body has never been found. Anthony Rotondo, a DeCavalcante capo turned government informer, told of numerous dealings and meetings he had with Wild Bill and his crew members before, during, and after the war.

Rotondo testified that he heard Cutolo refer to the elder Persico as a "rat" for admitting the existence of the Mafia during the historic 1985 Commission case. The witness also described Wild Bill as a Brooklyn-based "tough guy" who headed a murderous crew that killed several Persico loyalists during the 1990s conflict.

The Brooklyn-born Rotondo said his family followed the lead of late Gambino boss John Gotti and supported Cutolo's faction, headed by Victor "Little" Vic Orena. During the war, he said, he often met with Cutolo and others at various places in Brooklyn for news about the conflict and to stay abreast of several rackets his family shared with Cutolo and his crew.

Under questioning by Assistant U.S. Attorney Katya Jestin, he also related that Wild Bill had predicted his own demise in 1998 soon after he was elevated to underboss from capo and Rotondo saw him "strutting around like a rooster."

The forecast came after Alphonse Persico had asked the new underboss for an accounting of all his money-making rackets, Rotondo testified, recalling that when Wild Bill related the story, he added: "You know what's happening next."

Prompted by Ms. Jestin to explain his understanding of that last remark, Rotondo said: "Billy wouldn't be around too long.""

http://www.nysun.com/new-york/they-got-to-let-go-gotti-says-after-mistrial/40588/


I remember reading at numerous sources that the Orena faction considered the elder Persico a rat for acknowleding the existence of the mafia. A side note on Rotondo, it was his house that Casso used to torture and kill Jimmy Hydell.

Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: GerryLang] #635786
02/20/12 06:14 PM
02/20/12 06:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Dapper_Don Offline
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Dapper_Don  Offline
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Brooklyn, New York
^^^ i didnt know about that side note, was that house in NYC?

Last edited by Dapper_Don; 02/20/12 06:14 PM.

Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, don't they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the water's fine.


Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: Dapper_Don] #635788
02/20/12 06:31 PM
02/20/12 06:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 803
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GerryLang Offline OP
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GerryLang  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
^^^ i didnt know about that side note, was that house in NYC?


Yes, somewhere in Brooklyn, not sure the exact neighborhood. The house was checked years later for any possible forensic evidence, but none was found. Rotondo's father was also a high ranking mafia member, not sure what family, think it was DeCavalcante family too, he was whacked in the 80's I believe.

Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: GerryLang] #635830
02/20/12 11:07 PM
02/20/12 11:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Dapper_Don Offline
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Dapper_Don  Offline
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Originally Posted By: GerryLang
Originally Posted By: Dapper_Don
^^^ i didnt know about that side note, was that house in NYC?


Yes, somewhere in Brooklyn, not sure the exact neighborhood. The house was checked years later for any possible forensic evidence, but none was found. Rotondo's father was also a high ranking mafia member, not sure what family, think it was DeCavalcante family too, he was whacked in the 80's I believe.


Thanks for the insight, i always find it interesting when a Decav guy lives in NYC instead of NJ.


Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, don't they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the water's fine.


Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: GerryLang] #635831
02/20/12 11:40 PM
02/20/12 11:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 62
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CarloRizzo Offline
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Obviously Carmine Persico would never flip.

Merlino and Barney are the only younger guys I can think of who wouldn't.

I'm sure very few of the leader sin any family would.
These guys(Joe Massino) who flip when they are so old are a ****ing disgrace. I can almost understand a young guy flipping, but these guys 60+ who do are just horrible people. I can only hope there really is a hell for people like them to burn in some day.

Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: CarloRizzo] #635862
02/21/12 06:03 AM
02/21/12 06:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles Offline
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HairyKnuckles  Offline
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Originally Posted By: CarloRizzo


I'm sure very few of the leader sin any family would.
These guys(Joe Massino) who flip when they are so old are a ****ing disgrace. I can almost understand a young guy flipping, but these guys 60+ who do are just horrible people. I can only hope there really is a hell for people like them to burn in some day.


I honestly don´t understand this. On my part, I welcome all informants. I have no feelings for them whatsoever. And I never mind conflicting information or semi lies out of them because I have (we actually all have) still the opportunity to choose what to believe and what not to believe.
Seriously, I do not understand the negativity. For those of us who are interested in learning more about the Mafia, these informants are a necessity.
What would we have known today without them? We would basically be fumbling in the dark and our thirst for knowledge would not had existed to the extent it exists today.

CarloRizzo, aren´t you interested in finding out more about the mob?



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Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: HairyKnuckles] #636059
02/22/12 03:06 AM
02/22/12 03:06 AM
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CarloRizzo Offline
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I'm interested in finding out more, but every informant puts multiple guys behind bars.
I don't want to see the mafia weakened or eventually disappear.

Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: CarloRizzo] #636081
02/22/12 01:13 PM
02/22/12 01:13 PM
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Originally Posted By: CarloRizzo
I'm interested in finding out more, but every informant puts multiple guys behind bars.
I don't want to see the mafia weakened or eventually disappear.

But didn't you say here

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=633523#Post633523

you didn't like the mafia? So why don't you want them to be weakened or disappear? Have you suddenly started to like these murderous scumbags?
In my opinion, the ones to burn in hell are those mafiosi who protect the secrets of this murderous organization by keeping quiet, not the informants. Well, maybe the informants also should, but NOT because they betrayed the organization, but for the crimes they committed.


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: Dwalin2011] #636098
02/22/12 01:41 PM
02/22/12 01:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,245
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Strax Offline
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Strax  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Originally Posted By: CarloRizzo
I'm interested in finding out more, but every informant puts multiple guys behind bars.
I don't want to see the mafia weakened or eventually disappear.

But didn't you say here

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=633523#Post633523

you didn't like the mafia? So why don't you want them to be weakened or disappear? Have you suddenly started to like these murderous scumbags?
In my opinion, the ones to burn in hell are those mafiosi who protect the secrets of this murderous organization by keeping quiet, not the informants. Well, maybe the informants also should, but NOT because they betrayed the organization, but for the crimes they committed.


Actually informants are biggest scumbags,never betray anyone no matter what he is or who he is.If he is criminal be a criminal not rat.


"A fish with his mouth closed never get's caught"
Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: Strax] #636101
02/22/12 02:18 PM
02/22/12 02:18 PM
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Strax

Actually informants are biggest scumbags,never betray anyone no matter what he is or who he is.If he is criminal be a criminal not rat.

Without rats it would be nearly impossible to convict bosses who don't directly participate in crimes. Informants can be used by law enforcement to put away many other scumbags, it would be much worse for the honest people if they didn't exist.
I am not saying informants are worthy of respect, but I don't care if they betray other scumbags, what matters to me is that they are CRIMINALS, often MURDERERS and flipping on other murderers doesn't make them better or worse as long as they tell the truth. If they don't and frame INNOCENT people, that's a totally different case.


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: Strax] #636102
02/22/12 02:19 PM
02/22/12 02:19 PM
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Scorsese Offline
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The way i see it unless your the guy getting ratted on or part of his immediate family or even a business partner you really have no good excuse to give a fuck about the person or even go so far as to hate the guy snitching on him.

Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: Scorsese] #636103
02/22/12 02:30 PM
02/22/12 02:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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I really don't see the point of hating "rats" on the part of people who are not mafiosi, they are traitors only for the mafia, honest people should consider them just as tools used to damage the mafia. A tool isn't "good" or "bad", it's just a tool that can be useful. That's what I think about their betrayal of the mafia. If we are talking about the crimes they committed before turning informants, that's a different thing, they are scumbags of course, not better nor worse than non-informant mafiosi.

Last edited by Dwalin2011; 02/22/12 02:31 PM.

Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: Dwalin2011] #636108
02/22/12 02:54 PM
02/22/12 02:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,571
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Scorsese Offline
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Scorsese  Offline
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people that go around claiming to hate snitches but arent really involved with any criminal activity are delusional because they think they can identify with wiseguys and their street code. They think it applies to them in their regular lives, when in reality these wiseguys would probably cut your throat and leave you in a ditch if they had to.

Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: Scorsese] #636134
02/22/12 06:50 PM
02/22/12 06:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: Scorsese
people that go around claiming to hate snitches but arent really involved with any criminal activity are delusional because they think they can identify with wiseguys and their street code. They think it applies to them in their regular lives, when in reality these wiseguys would probably cut your throat and leave you in a ditch if they had to.


Exactly. Well said. More often than not, it's the mob fanboys or apologists that always rant about hating rats.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: Dwalin2011] #636185
02/23/12 12:30 AM
02/23/12 12:30 AM
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Posts: 62
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CarloRizzo Offline
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I don't think they are good guys or anything.
But if the mafia is completely wiped out it will just be mexican/black groups taking their place. At least the mafia ia interesting so i'd rather it be them sticking around.

Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: CarloRizzo] #636189
02/23/12 12:51 AM
02/23/12 12:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 18
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JPaisano Offline
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Wiseguy
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Posts: 18
lol well said

Originally Posted By: CarloRizzo
I don't think they are good guys or anything.
But if the mafia is completely wiped out it will just be mexican/black groups taking their place. At least the mafia ia interesting so i'd rather it be them sticking around.


Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: CarloRizzo] #636200
02/23/12 07:42 AM
02/23/12 07:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,571
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Scorsese Offline
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Scorsese  Offline
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Originally Posted By: CarloRizzo
I don't think they are good guys or anything.
But if the mafia is completely wiped out it will just be mexican/black groups taking their place. At least the mafia ia interesting so i'd rather it be them sticking around.


Whats there really for mexican and black gangs to take over. their not into gambling and they dont have any ties to any unions and labour activity. Your local street level dealers would probably have to go to them for their drugs, worst case the gangs start taxing local drug dealers and criminals, but i doubt they are gonna set up shop in some white neighbourhood where they stand out. The local officials and politicians would probably go the extra mile to make sure that wouldnt happen more than they did when it was getting bad in the hoods the gangs originated in. I doubt you'll see any drastic change if the mob was completely gone, prob low level gang activity but i dont think youd get the same level as you would in a place like harlem or compton.

Last edited by Scorsese; 02/23/12 07:43 AM.
Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: IvyLeague] #636212
02/23/12 12:01 PM
02/23/12 12:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: Scorsese
people that go around claiming to hate snitches but arent really involved with any criminal activity are delusional because they think they can identify with wiseguys and their street code. They think it applies to them in their regular lives, when in reality these wiseguys would probably cut your throat and leave you in a ditch if they had to.


Exactly. Well said. More often than not, it's the mob fanboys or apologists that always rant about hating rats.

Well put, guys.

It's one thing if a mob rat put away a member of your family, or if you're a mob guy yourself. Then I can certainly understand your hatred of rats. But it's quite another thing when you're a 19 year old manchild posting on an Internet board. You haven't even lived yet, and you're making assumptions that you'd be a "stand-up" guy if you were facing life in prison (or death in the street). It's silly when you think about it.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: pizzaboy] #636264
02/23/12 04:57 PM
02/23/12 04:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 263
Scotland UK
gemini_killer Offline
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gemini_killer  Offline
Capo
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lol you call it how it is... I like that


From now on, nothing goes down unless I'm involved. No blackjack no dope deals, no nothing. A nickel bag gets sold in the park, I want in. You guys got fat while everybody starved on the street. Now it's my turn. -Frank White

You say your 72, if they come back and tell me to give you a message - and if you want to defy it ... I assure you that you will never reach 73 - Joey "the clown" Lombardo
Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: GerryLang] #636275
02/23/12 06:34 PM
02/23/12 06:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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IvyLeague Offline
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Every time there is a new mob bust, you'll notice that many of these same mob apologists have the same response. "Why are you bothering some old Italian guys?" "Why aren't you going after the violent drug gangs?" You see this kind of stuff in the comments section under the online articles all the time.

Of course, the feds are going after the violent drug gangs all the time. If people bother to check out the press releases of the federal or local prosecutor in any given city, or the FBI, they'll see many of them. But they don't bother to do that. They just feel they can comment on what article they happen to come across. And that article is often about the Mafia, which has always made for bigger press.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Mobsters you can't imagine flipping [Re: IvyLeague] #636292
02/23/12 07:23 PM
02/23/12 07:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Dapper_Don Offline
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Dapper_Don  Offline
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Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Every time there is a new mob bust, you'll notice that many of these same mob apologists have the same response. "Why are you bothering some old Italian guys?" "Why aren't you going after the violent drug gangs?" You see this kind of stuff in the comments section under the online articles all the time.

Of course, the feds are going after the violent drug gangs all the time. If people bother to check out the press releases of the federal or local prosecutor in any given city, or the FBI, they'll see many of them. But they don't bother to do that. They just feel they can comment on what article they happen to come across. And that article is often about the Mafia, which has always made for bigger press.


100% correct


Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, don't they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the water's fine.


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