Well no one knows for sure but IMO it is indisputable that Bonnano was neck deep in the heroin trade considering there are abounding sources including Selwyn Raab and Jerry Capeci that say he was involved in the drug trade and aside from Joe himself and his son Bill there are exactly zero sources that I am aware of which corroborate his kidnapping story and anti drug stance. If you can show me a credible source other than Joe or Bill Bonnano I will certainly keep an open mind though and I am not trying to insult you or personally attack you because we disagree. Furthermore his underboss was one of the biggest drug dealers in the country and do not believe for a second Bonnano didn't know what was going on.

Mussolini wrote:

"Well no one knows for sure but IMO it is indisputable that Bonnano was neck deep in the heroin trade considering there are abounding sources including Selwyn Raab and Jerry Capeci that say he was involved in the drug trade and aside from Joe himself and his son Bill there are exactly zero sources that I am aware of which corroborate his kidnapping story and anti drug stance. If you can show me a credible source other than Joe or Bill Bonnano I will certainly keep an open mind though and I am not trying to insult you or personally attack you because we disagree. Furthermore his underboss was one of the biggest drug dealers in the country and do not believe for a second Bonnano didn't know what was going on."


In no way did your replay came across in my mind that you were insulting me or personally attacking me. I hope you understand that my posts and replies are not meant to be insulting you or attacking you in any way either.
We simply disagree.

The fact that a boss in a crime family does not know all of what is going on should not come as a big surprise. Throughout mob history there are numerous situations where family members acted without the boss´s knowledge or consent. Even when the boss´s power was, or was supposed to be, absolute.
A boss´s ban on drugdealing and the members engagement in it can easily fall into this category. Even with the ban and the threat of being killed if gettin caught, members did not keep themselves out of the drug trade.
Galante was not killed for his transgressions. But he was stripped of his capo rank and shelved.

It´s not up to the accused to prove himself innocent, it´s up to the accuser to prove his guilt. As far as I know, neither Raab or Capeci has presented any evidence backing up their statements. I believe these were made out of perceptions and hearsay stemming from the government´s fumbling attempts to put Bonanno behind bars in the 1960s. And also because of rumors of Bonanno´s still involvement with the Bonanno crime family in the 1970s (which is complete nonsense), when the Family was huge in the drug trade.

That's true in a court of law, not in the court of public opinion. And that's all these boards are.

While certainly Raab and Capeci can't possibly know for sure unless they were there. Nevertheless they are widely regarded as experts on mafia history and as far as I am aware neither has been criticized as a liar or fabricator and do not see a motive for them to lie about such things. Without a doubt I accede underlings do things such as broker drug deals that their bosses are not aware of. Notwithstanding I find it illogical and unreasonable to believe someone as savvy as Joe Bonanno would be unaware that his underboss was moving massive amounts of heroin for a decade. We're not talking about the occasional drug deal. Galante was one of the biggest traffickers in the country for over a decade while serving as Underboss to Bonnano. Furthermore by most accounts Joe Bonanno was highly intelligent and Carmine Galante was on the slow side, even diagnosed as borderline retarded while in prison IIRC which makes it even more improbable that he could hide such a large scale operation from Bonanno for so long. Also why do you suppose Bonanno was in Sicily with Galante staying in the same Palermo hotel as Galante and other Sicilian heroin traffickers while meetings regarding the heroin pipeline from Sicily to the USA were taking place? Again I always try and keep an open mind and look forward to hearing your response.

Mussolini14, weren't you the one who once said you believed that story told by 2 former cops I argued with that Vic Amuso was innocent and that you didn't believe Capeci? And now you are talking about Bonanno like you believe he was guilty. What's the difference between the two? They are both mobsters. I thought you didn't believe in the existence of the mafia at all, according to what you told me then.

There were actually two meetings during Bonanno´s visit to Palermo in 1957. When word got around that Joe Bonanno was in Italy and heading to Palermo, some of the Sicilian Family leaders reached out to him to ask for Bonanno´s help. They arranged a get-together at Spano´s Restaurant.
At the gathering, some of the Sicilian Family leaders approached Bonanno asking for guidence in resolving issues they had with one another, in hopes of putting an end to the Sicilian marketplace killings. The Sicilians knew that in America, at least since 1931, the Commission had been a successfull tool of keeping the peace. They wanted to know how it worked.
In attendence were Santo Sorge from Sicily, representing Lucky Luciano (who, contrary to published reports, was not present); Carmine Galante, John Bonventre, Frank Garofalo, Toto Greco, Joe Bonanno, Tomas Buscetta and other heads of the Sicilian Mafia such as Nino Badalamenti of Cinisi and Toto Riina of Corleone, who were fighting eachother.
At this meeting, the Sicilians suggested a formal alliance between the US Mafia and the Sicilians.
The discussions were informal, so no deciscion was made because Bonanno had no authorization for such a meeting in the first place. But this meeting was an opportunity for a number of people involved to hear some insights and suggestions from someone whose experience might benefit them. Keep in mind that Bonanno functioned as the chairman of the Commission at this time.

Sometime later the second meeting was held at the Grand Hotel. And narcotics was at the agenda. Here´s what Bill Bonanno says about it in his book "The Last Testament":

"At this meeting the Commission´s ban on narcotics trading, was put to a dramatic challenge. It soon became apparent from the Sicilian mafiosi in attendance that many of the Families in the United States considered the ban nothing more than lip sevice...
In an effort to explain to the Sicilians why my father opposed drug trafficking, he addressed the subject directly at the meeting. My father found narcotics and prostitution despicable, beneath the dignity of real men of honor. The Bonanno Family made money from gambling, liquor, the garment industry and other businesses that were not regarded by the politicians as hurting people. If the Families got deep into narcotics, he argued, we would loose the support of the politicians we had cultivated so carefully over the years, and law-enforcement officials would no longer be our silent and forgiving partners.
He informed the Sicilian leaders, "What businesses you elect to engage in is your Family´s decision and will not be interfered with by the Bonanno Family. However, Bonanno will not deal in drugs. And any member of my Family caught doing so will pay the penalty with death.""

Furthermore, Bill Bonanno says:

"Upon my father´s return to New York from Palermo, he called a meeting of all the group leaders in the Bonanno Family. All agreed that no one in our Family would deal in narcotics. His explanation to the Family in that meeting was plain:
"When things become a little hard, about narcotics, I pass[ed] a law in my Family. I don´t have to tell Luciano. Who deal with narcotics, you die. I give you three months of time. Pack up, close, no more business; the benefit of the doubt. Anybody fool me, they´re gonna get killed. Men of tradition approve that. They don´t like. In Charlie [Luciano´s] Family, and in [the] Lucchese Family, look like there was some that didn´t like the idea. My personal law. The cops will come in and they will destroy us and destroy the tradition and the system.""

I think you have to take what both Joe and Bill Bonanno said in their autobiographies with a dump truck of salt. Very much a whitewash job. Like most mob guys, they're going to try to make themselves look more noble than their counterparts or than they themselves probably were. Bottom line, given the Bonanno family's deep involvement in the drug trade, both before and after Bonanno was sent packing to Arizona, I find it very hard to believe he took a hard stance against narcotics.

Sounds very unlikely. How did he become such a bigshot in the 70s after being released from prisonif he was only a soldier? It's been said that he was supported by most of the other caporegimes. And he was at least a capo by then, he must have been. I don't think other caporegimes would take orders from a soldier and the only one capable of promoting him would have been the official boss, Rusty Rastelli. And the likelyhood that Rastelli, who was Galante's rival, would promote him was very slim at best.

Just read the Luciano bio by Tim Newark.

He paints a picture of Luciano being a shadow of his former self after his deportation to Italy, not even being present at the famous 1957 meeting in Palermo, and surviving on money that Lansky would sent him. Other books portray Lucky as a big time international heroin dealer until the day he died, holding on to power in the States as well as in Italy.

Wonder which one is true?

Lilo´s supporters within the Bonanno Family tried several times to intercede on his behalf but all failed. So he had followers who wanted him back into the boss´s grace.

We know that the Bonanno Family was reorganized after the Bananas war in a considerable way. It is possible that the bosses who gained power after the retirement of Joe Bonanno reinstalled Lilo back into a capo position.
Galante´s FBI files which can be found in the Vault is so heavily blackened it´s nearly impossible to read. Basically all info in there that is coming from informants are redacted. We simply don´t know how Galante gained the power he wielded in the 1970s.
But the subject is intriguing and very interesting. This is making me want to request his files just to satisfy my curiosity. I´m sure the processors at the FBI will leave much more open text to read than what´s available in the Vault at the moment.

I said nothing even close to that. What I said was I would believe the opinion of someone who interacted with a guy for 20+ years than I would of some schlub who read a few Capeci articles and now thinks they are an expert. Furthermore I believe it was yourself who made the ridiculous claim that 10-15% of Italians were mob members or associates and I simply pointed out how inaccurate that was.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. When he first got deported he probably was in charge and still had the power but as time went on people back home in ny started to wonder why they were taking orders from someone on the other side of the world, which is where vito genovese moved in. Alot of conflicting stories about luciano but im guessing he didnt die with the same power or as a big time drug trafficker he was before.
Does anyone know how powerful he was in italy?

Tim Newark can't seem to make up his mind either.

He mentions the incident where Luciano was slapped in the face on the street in Napoli by a local mafioso. Then he mentions the same mafioso was found dead a week later, implying Luciano had something to do with it, without giving any sources or further information.

Interestingly, John Dickie states in his book Cosa Nostra that the man who slapped Luciano was killed by a Sicilian boss in the 1970s.

YOU are an idiot schlub, not me. The fact you like the mafia proves it. I just said I believed AMUSO was a mobster, not 10-15% of Italians. As for those 2 cops who interacted with Amuso and claimed he didn't deserve to go to jail, did you ever think about the possibility they were just mob sympathizers who may have taken money from him?

Come on, guys .

That is interesting. And I must say I hold John Dickie in higher regard than Tim Newark. I have Cosa Nostra but read it years ago, will look that part up.

I really don´t want to come across as a nagger, but here´s some interesting excerpts from an interesting FBI report, posted by David Critchley on another Mafia Forum.
An Informant who, I believe, was active in Philly seems to confirm Bill Bonanno´s statement that Lilo was indeed shelved.

"The informant said that he recognized a photograph of CARMINE GALANTE as an individual known to him on one occasion and said that he believes that he is a member of the Organization. He said that he is getting along in years and he believe that GALANTE may be in a "retired status"."

- Other interesting stuff found in the report:

"The informant said that although he assumes that the name "La Cosa Nostra" grew into popular use through some mistake he had never heard the Organization referred to in this manner until the year of 1963. He claimed that he had never heard actual members refer to it by any name and considered that this was not necessary.
He assumed that use of "La Cosa Nostra" may have developed as a result of some members talking in the presence of another individual who was not a member in attempting to make themselves clear to each other, one of them may have referred to the Organization as "Our Thing", and the use of "La Cosa Nostra" subsequently developed."

- On the Scafidis:

"The informant had also learned that ROCCO SCAFIDI had been incarcerated at the Philadelphia Detention Center with PHILIP TESTA. He said that SCAFIDI's father,TOM GAETANO, had been a member of the Organization but that he had never heard that any of the SCAFIDI boys had become members. He said it was very doubtful if ROCCO would be accepted as a member as he is "too radical".
He also said tnat in his opinion ROCCO is always trying to capitalize on the reputation of his father who is deceased. ROCCO was said to be hours doing things that get himself in trouble and cause embarrassment to others. To his knowledge ROCCO has been this way for at least ten years.
The informant said that he has known ANDY SCAFIDI for many years and that this individual is "sick in the head".
Another brother SALVATORE was said to be dying of cancer.

With regard to information reported concerning a previous contact with the informant as to GAETANO SCAFIDI killing his wife the informant said that this is apparently a misunderstanding that he wants to correct. The man who committed the killing in this situation was MICHAEL MAGGIO
(deceased) who killed both his second wife and one of his sons when he found them in bed together." (!!!)

- On Harry Riccobene:

"HARRY RICCOBENE a member of the Organization in Philadelphia has tried to have John's Vending buy out Penn Jersey Vending completely but ANGELO BRUNO does not want to make the complete sale.
BRUNO claims that the portion of Penn-Jersey that he continues to control furnishes him a living and a salary to his wife and possibly one other person.
The informant said that he knows that HARRY RICCOBENE has sent orders to MARIO "SONNY" RICCOBENE to continue efforts to completely buy out Penn Jersey and thereby eliminate Penn Jersey from any association with John's Vending. HARRY RICCOBENE feels that the current association between the two vending companies is hurting the business of John's Vending due to the current notoriety of ANGELO BRUNO and his known association with Penn-Jersey.
SONNY RICCOBENE is not a member of the Organization and probably will not be as long as HARRY RICCOBENE is alive.
The informant said that he knows that HARRY RICCOBENE is definitely opposed to his half-brother MARIO "SONNY" RICCOBENE becoming a member of the Organization."

If anybody is interested to read the whole report, PM me and I will send you the PDF file.

May be is a different story than is. Also, I think Galante was in jail at the time when this was stated by that informant. And he doesn't state anything about "being shelved."



That's very interesting. As a non-Italian, I always had trouble with the "la" thing, which was artificially added by the FBI so they could refer to it as LCN, which they apparantly considered to be a nicer abbreviation. If I was an Italian, I would be insulted by such arrogancy.