Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Speaking for myself, I'm content to avoid a lot of the speculation about the war and just wait for information to come in when it does.

That said, I've noticed that quite a few people here make the assumption that a big part of all this conflict is the drug pipeline between Canada and the U.S. Or, to be more specific, between Montreal/Toronto and New York. The thinking seems to be that the Montreal and Toronto guys have the product, because of their international connections, and so they are the suppliers to the New York guys, who don't have the same international connections, but have a market.

On it's face, this would make sense. Until one finds that the flow of drugs, at least when it comes to Italian OC, isn't going south for the most part. It's going north. And that's where it's staying. In other words, the Rizzutos and their guys in Montreal were smuggling cocaine and other drugs into Montreal and were distributing it in the local market there. Same for the Calabrians in Toronto. Except for some marijuana sent south across the US/Canadian border to New York and Florida, there is really little evidence of the Italians up in Canada - be they Sicilian or Calabrian, in Montreal or Toronto - importing drugs there and then smuggling it into the U.S. In fact, marijuana is the one exception, where most of it is going south from Canada to the U.S. But that's done mostly by Asian groups, bikers, and others.

Furthermore, I really have to question the claim made in one of the recent articles about the 'Ndrangheta operating under the radar in New York because law enforcement is focused on terrorism. If this were the case, how would the writer(s) of the article even know this? They get their information from law enforcement, not the other way around. A few years ago there was that massive bust, dubbed "Operation Reckoning" and "Operation Solare" that involved the Gulf Cartel, members of the 'Ndrangheta in New York, Canada, and Europe, as well as a few local NY mob guys, but that was largely about moving cocaine from South America and Mexico to the U.S. and Europe. Not to Canada and then into the U.S.

Finally, I have to at least question the size estimates made by some about the mob up there. If I'm not mistaken, the population in the greater Montreal area is about 3.6 million, making it comparable to Seattle or San Diego. And the population in the greater Toronto metro area is about 5.5 million, making it comparable to Philadelphia or Houston. I believe there are about 250,000 Italians in Montreal and another 200,000 in Toronto. Making both of them fall somewhere between Detroit and Cleveland, by comparison.

Personally, I don't have a hard time believing that the 100+ guys rounded up in the Project Colisee case between 2006 and 2008 were the bulk of the Rizzuto organization. It was certainly enough people removed to create a big enough power vacuum for the ensuing chaos to occur. And Italian authorities who cited the 7 'Ndrangheta clans in Toronto also cited about 40 people who made up the "Canadian cell" (or those 7 Toronto-based clans) of the 'Ndrangheta. And the Thunder Bay wing of things, at least until fairly recently, was said to be dormant. So I do have a hard time believing there are literally "hundreds" of Sicilian Mafia and 'Ndrangheta members in Montreal and Toronto. Or, frankly, in all of Canada.

From what I can tell, there is a hodgepodge of Sicilian and Calabrian OC elements up in eastern Canada. And both have had connections, or even members, in American LCN families in the past, which makes things more confusing. There certainly seems to be more of an "international" element to Italian mobsters in Canada, when compared to those in the U.S. And there are obviously still links between them. But it seems many tend to overstate those links, thereby conjuring up a much bigger and more widespread conspiracy. That's where we get into the theories about the Sicilians and Calabrians fighting over who will control the flow of drugs into Canada - and by extension - into the U.S. With a little decades-old payback thrown in for good measure. And it all being mastermind by the bosses back in Italy.

Well, I don't see it. The mob guys up in Canada may be more international than their American counterparts, but they seem to be as much Canadian as the guys in the U.S. are American. Some of them using their passports more frequently doesn't change that. They're local guys largely dealing with local issues within and between Montreal and Toronto, with more of an indirect and distant connection to New York or Italy.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.



Not for nothing, some interesting stats on the GTA and Ivy at least if these stats are right, there are way more than 200 000 people of 50% of more Italian blood in the GTA.


Language

Toronto remains a mosaic of many languages. In 2006, forty-seven percent of the population had a mother tongue in a language other than English or French.


The top 5 mother tongue languages in 2006 were:


Chinese (420,000);
Italian (195,000);
Punjabi (138,000);
Tagalog/Pilipino (114,000);
Portuguese (113,000).


http://www.toronto.ca/toronto_facts/diversity.htm

Last edited by Mussolini14; 11/29/11 11:14 PM.