Originally Posted By: The Italian Stallionette
PB,

I'll be honest, I feel badly for Ali and what this disease has done to him. BUT

However, (and keep in mind I am not a sports fan) I remember him during his heyday and I couldn't stand his schtick (?). I always thought at the time he was a big mouth with his weird poetry (float like a butterfly, sting like a bee rolleyes) and anointing himself as "The Greatest". I forgot, til you mentioned about him dodging the draft as well.

Anyway, that being said, today I feel badly for him and judging from those in the know the guy was a great boxer or perhaps in his words was actually "The Greatest"
Ok, bash me!! lol
TIS


Originally Posted By: olivant
Well, Ali's claim that he had suddenly converted to Islam and was a minister was undeniably an attempt to avoid the draft, plaina nd simple. His boxing skills were among the best ever, but he did have a big mouth.

Joe Frazier beat Ali on points which was totally, totally thought to be impossible and broke the myth of Ali's invincibility. I rooted for Joe in that one.


Far be it from me to bash anyone. wink But there are a few things to point out.
Ali had converted to Islam before 1964. smile The draft issue (reclassification) didn't come up until 66-67.His conversion to Islam was heartfelt and had nothing to do with the draft.

I can't know for 100% what is in anyone else's head but Ali was a special case. He went on numerous speaking tours explaining exactly why he refused to serve in the Armed Forces. He was not a draft dodger so much as he was a politically and religiously motivated conscientious objector. Keep in mind that much like Joe Louis' army service, Ali's service probably would have been mostly for show; Ali would likely not have been in danger if he had been willing to play ball.

But he was willing to stand up for what he believed in even though he stood an excellent chance of losing everything and being crushed by the Federal government. He did lose a great deal of his wealth but more importantly he lost the best boxing years of his life. I admire him for his stand on principle. Most people would not have done that.

His persona of course was not to everyone's taste but again you have to consider the times. For an athlete, particularly a black athlete to carry himself with swagger and speak his mind on the issues of the day was almost revolutionary.

As far as the stuff with Frazier, some of that was not defensible; some of it Frazier wrongly took to heart. It was both Ali playing the dozens and trying to hype up interest in the fights. Bottom line though, they're in the hurting business. If there was anything that really bothered Frazier he had every opportunity in the ring to show Ali how he felt.

The reason I consider Ali the Greatest is not only because he had the speed/grace of a middleweight/lightweight combined with the power of a heavyweight but also because from 64~75 he dominated the heavyweight division at its best. Giants walked the earth in those days. And Ali pretty much beat them all. And initially he did so dropping his arms, which as any boxer will tell you is the wrong thing to do. His speed as a young man was just incredible.

Frazier was great and deserves much respect. Ali was transcendent.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungleā€”as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.