As we all know, James Hydell was murdered by Anthony Casso as retaliation for an unsuccessful attempt on his life.

We also know that James Hydell was pulled over and picked up by the Mafia Cops (Louis Eppolito and Stephen Caracappa) and taken to Casso. According to Philip Carlo and interviews with Gas, he tortured Hydell until he gave up Angie Ruggiero as having passed the order and the names of the other shooters.

I was reading Sammy the Bull's FBI debriefing documents, and noticed something in there about the murder of James Hydell. According to Sammy the Bull, Jimmy Failla and Joe Corrao were taken to where Casso had Hydell to hear it for themselves.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/sammy-bull-gravano-fbi-debriefings?page=12

I find this tidbit fascinating. I have read elsewhere that Jimmy Failla and Dan Marino were plotting with the Chin to have Gotti killed, where upon they would take over the family. I have also read that the Chin and Gas were working together to get Gotti as well.

It is also clear that Failla and Corrao were not Gotti fans.

Joe Butch was clearly his own man. He fell out of favor with Gotti when he was smart enough to take a plea deal. Today it's commonplace. The guy was a visionary. If John Gotti wasn't so batshit anti-government, a good portion of his 1980s era crew would be out by now.

How do you think his brother Gene likes living with the fact that he would have been out by now had he taken a plea that his brother forbade him to take? Same goes for John Carneglia and a few other guys.

F**king Gotti and his ego!

Angelo Ruggiero sure caused a lot of crap! He was the guy who gave the FBI probable cause to bug Castellano's mansion. His refusal to turn over the tapes detailing his heroin dealing heightened the Gotti/Castellano tension. And of course, he tried to have Gaspipe killed. It's amazing this guy died of natural causes and not from a bullet to the head!

I feel a little confusion. I've heard Casso was a soldier at the time, but given the dates, wouldn't he be the Underboss? Why did the Gambinos shrug off the murder of Eddie Lino?

And about Joe Butch, the guy was about twice as stylish and better looking than Gotti too. Although from what Gravano says about rumors of Castellano humiliating Gotti by breaking him down and putting him in Joe Butch's crew, you would think he was a lot lower down the totem pole when he was actually an earner.

Hydell's murder attempt happened in September 1986. At the time Casso was underboss while Amuso was the boss(in name at least) Tony ducks had gone to jail in 85 so he named Casso as acting boss but he declined and convinced him to name Vic as boss. However it seemed like Casso really had the power in the family. I dont know if Joe Butch and Jimmy failia were there when Hydell was killed although it is true that both of themn disliked gotti. Gotti was a tough guy but he did fear people. Obviously he was absolutely terrified of Roy demeo. He also feared Gigante who conspired with Casso to kill him in the bomb that killed Decicco. Also Casso and Vic attempted to kill both gotti and Gravano but they were too high profile and they would also duck them when it came to meetings

I think Hydell gave up Mickey Paradiso as passing on the order, not Ruggiero directly. But Casso knew Paradiso was in Ruggiero's crew and it was Ruggiero who called the order (apparently from MCC)

Something else around that time period I found interesting was Gravano suggesting to Gotti to set up a better structure to insulate himself which seems similar to a Chicago structure. Corrao would have all Manhattan capos report to him, Gene Gotti would have all Queens capos report to him, Gravano would have BK/SI, and LoCascio would have Bronx/Westchester/Etc... and only those guys would report to Gotti directly. Seems like a good idea. Imagine if Gotti went with that instead of making everyone report in person at the Ravenite? I bet at least one of those 5 guys would still be out on the street.

I agree tt120. Gotti was not only dumb but he was also an egomaniac. Hell when he became boss he asked captains to give him a list of of thier soldiers and what buisnesses they ran lol.

"You dont roll (cooperate), you dont rat!, you take it (jail sentence) you dont rat!!!" - John Gotti

"Time for some real in your face Cosa Nostra (Planning of Castellano hit), out in front on the line" - John Gotti

While many of the Gambino captains were tripping over each other in a rush to kiss Gotti's ass, Failla and Marino saw Gotti the same way Chin did - a usurper. An illegitimate nobody from Queens who had just killed the boss in order to take over. The Genovese said they would accept Gotti taking over but, some day, somebody would have to pay.

The plan was for Gotti and DeCicco to be killed and Failla to become boss and Marino underboss with the backing of the Genovese family. Casso and the Luccheses were also brought in on the plot, which is certainly ironic, since Vic and Gas had told Gotti to go ahead and kill Paul before. Just shows you how Machiavellian Casso was.

After they got Deccico but missed Gotti, they thought the opportunity had past. But when the Gambinos started encroaching on the Jersey watefront (Genovese territory) that's when Bobby Manna and his guys again plotted to kill both John and Gene Gotti.

Is Marino a real powerhouse on the street? Its hard to find much info on him, but he sounds like a old school cosa nostra guy. I know he's in jail now but was he the most powerful Gambino on the street up until he was convicted?

I remember in the Carlo book it talks about how some of the Gambino capos were brought to see Hydell, but I don't remember Sammy being one of them. I think Failla was at Sparks on 12/16/1985 and I've read that he claims that Paul and Tommy were going to give him a lift.

Before he was indicted, Marino was on a 3-man ruling panel with Bobby Vernace and John Gambino.

Ivy, I have also heard that Gotti claimed that he had the Commissions blessing to kill Big Paul and Tommy. Phil Leonetti testified that Gotti told him he had the blessing.

I have never seen a source that Gotti talked with Vic and Gas. Gotti almost certainly did not talk with the Genovese's. I imagine he talked with Massino since they were tight. I have no idea if he talked with the Columbo's.

Do you have a source on Gotti talking with Vic and Gas about killing Paul?

in the gaspipe book it says gotti got permission from the bonannos, colombos, and lucchese but they didnt even bother with the genovese cause they knew they would say no

Gotti getting Commission approval is debatable at best. At the time, most of the actual bosses on the Commission were on trial. As we know, the Genovese family was not approached. They were considered too close to Castellano. But Gravano said they approached Vic and Gas in the Lucchese family, they got a message from Jerry Langella in the Colombos saying, "What are you waiting for?," and he apparently just assumed he had Joe Massino's support from the Bonannos; though Massino said he never would have approved it.

Do you think Ruggierro purposely used Danny Marino's nephew to make it seem like Marino was involved or gave it his OK? I'm surprised the Gambinos didn't kill Hydell before he plucked from the street by Cassos men, getting rid of him they could have had soem deniability. In the Brotherhoods and Cassos book both mention high ranking Gambino members being brung to Hydell before Casso killed him, including Sammy Gravano. In the Brotherhoods they say the beef between Casso and Ruggiero/Paradiso was over the proceeds of a heroin deal, and that Gotti shelved Paradiso and Ruggiero after the attempted hit.

Ruggiero was pretty much a moron. Actually the whole reason that Ang wanted to whack Casso was because Casso openly said that Ruggiero was an idiot. Now I think you have a good point about trying to implicate Marino since Marino was no fan of Gotti but i don't know if Ruggiero was that smart lol.

How Ruggiero avoided getting whacked Il never know LOL

Dellacroce was was a guardian angel for angelo and john. It turned out to be a mistake because those guys basically took down the family

yeah dellacroce was a scary guy .... has any1 known of gotti n marino and whats marinos story what was he at in the 80s ? did he go to the ravenite?? stuf like that .. not much known about him

Marino was closer to Big Paul along with Tommy gambino, Tommy Billotti and Jimmy faila

I get the sense Marino is a real Cosa Nostra guy, very low-key, not flashy and very ruthless.

i get that to . hes no more tho because he got jailed with his crew

i want to know how he n gotti were , ya know . is there any mention of marino in sammys book ?

Don't think from memory there was much mention, im not sure him and Gotti would of crossed paths much they were in different factions though I may be wrong.

I don't recall. I do remember that Marino's rise was mentioned in "Mafia Dynasty," which was published in the early '90s. It's a pretty entertaining read, and I'm pretty sure it's still in print.

Gerry, thanks for your post. I also wondered why the Gambino's didn't whack Hydell themselves since he was a liability. One reason may be that they were still trying to hit Gas. I wondered if that was why Gas brought Failla and Corrao to Hydell, and that brought an end to the hits.

I was unaware of the discussion on this in the Brotherhoods. I read the Carlo book on Gas and will check, but for some reason, I did not think he mentioned bringing the Gambino Capos to see Hydell while still alive.

I checked Philip Carlo's book, and according to it, Gas invited Gotti and Sammy the Bull to come and hear what Hydell was claiming. According to Carlo, Gotti sent Corrao and Jack Giodano - not Failla.

Interestingly, this source also claims that Giodano agreed that Quack Quack Ruggierro would be killed.

n gaspipe would of killed all of them gambinos ,, he was a crazy character , ithink a movie of gaspipes in the mob life would b pretty good like a swingback to the goodfelllas style ????