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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: Sonny_Black]
#610873
08/13/11 03:00 PM
08/13/11 03:00 PM
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Guys, don't fuckup this topic already as it's a good one. I tend to agree to the ones who say Michael was jealous of Tom's relationship with Sonny and possibly even Vito, but I think Michael's jealousy was limited and he did respect Tom. I'm not sure if Mike really blamed Tom for Sonny's death. I don't see this in the films and I forgot how this exactly is being told in the novel. I agree. For me, there isn't even much reason for Tom to be blamed. It was Sonny's own hot-headedness that ultimately caused his demise. Vito seemed to realise this and for me theres no reason to suggest Micheal was any different.
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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: JCrusher]
#610874
08/13/11 03:03 PM
08/13/11 03:03 PM
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I never said Mike didn't respect Tom. I just think he treated him like shit sometimes. Son ny and Vito had better relationship with him for sure. The reasons I say that mike wasn't jealous was because even jealousy requires emotion and by part 2 mike had no real emotion This thread isn't to address the question of jealousy between Micheal and Tom - theres enough of that in the other thread. This is specifically to discuss wether or not Micheal blamed Tom for Sonny's death, and wether or not he 'never forgave him' for this.
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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: JCrusher]
#610877
08/13/11 03:11 PM
08/13/11 03:11 PM
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I realize that and I have answered that question I was responding to someone else's post ok. So just shut up Have you? Did he blame Tom or not? Did he ever forgive him?
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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: JCrusher]
#610881
08/13/11 03:19 PM
08/13/11 03:19 PM
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No i'm not touchy but you should be a little nicer and polite to posters and you would get a better reaction. Just a thought LOL. Also i post what the topic is about and i may add a comment so it's not a big fucking deal dude Hurt your feelings did I? Diddums.
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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: olivant]
#610886
08/13/11 03:24 PM
08/13/11 03:24 PM
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What makes the Board's threads so vibrant is what we infer from and what we believe is implied by the novel's and the films' words and actions.
There is nothing in the novel or films by which Michael's specifically blames Tom for Sonny's death. But Michael's behavior toward Tom was undeserved for any other reason than the misfortunes that the Corleones had suffered while Tom was Consigliere especially Sonny's death. As Tom admitted to himself, he had been faked out by the Five Families timidity, something for which Genco would never have fallen. What exactly are you referring to when you say 'Micheals behaviour towards Tom'? Then we can analyse if it was 'undeserved for any other reason than the misfortunes the Corleones had suffered while Tom was consigliere'.
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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: JCrusher]
#610888
08/13/11 03:25 PM
08/13/11 03:25 PM
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No i'm not touchy but you should be a little nicer and polite to posters and you would get a better reaction. Just a thought LOL. Also i post what the topic is about and i may add a comment so it's not a big fucking deal dude Hurt your feelings did I? Diddums. No man I don't give a flying fuck. And I guessing your a fa***t from the diddums comment. I mean expected that but I guess I know now lol Ask your father.
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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: Immobiliare]
#610889
08/13/11 03:28 PM
08/13/11 03:28 PM
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JCrusher
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No i'm not touchy but you should be a little nicer and polite to posters and you would get a better reaction. Just a thought LOL. Also i post what the topic is about and i may add a comment so it's not a big fucking deal dude Hurt your feelings did I? Diddums. No man I don't give a flying fuck. And I guessing your a fa***t from the diddums comment. I mean expected that but I guess I know now lol Ask your father. My father died in military service? But I do know he fucked some broads in his lifetime
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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: olivant]
#610898
08/13/11 04:01 PM
08/13/11 04:01 PM
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While Board members are expected to post strong opinions, try mollifying the language that is used when doing so. You can make your point and gain respect from Board members without using foul language. Give it a try. JCrusher, take note.
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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: JCrusher]
#610902
08/13/11 04:09 PM
08/13/11 04:09 PM
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While Board members are expected to post strong opinions, try mollifying the language that is used when doing so. You can make your point and gain respect from Board members without using foul language. Give it a try. JCrusher, take note. I already acknowledged that. i guess I got a little upset since you mentioned my father who has been dead for a a long time now Lol, your language began before your father was even mentioned. Try again.
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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: Immobiliare]
#610903
08/13/11 04:13 PM
08/13/11 04:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
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JCrusher
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While Board members are expected to post strong opinions, try mollifying the language that is used when doing so. You can make your point and gain respect from Board members without using foul language. Give it a try. JCrusher, take note. I already acknowledged that. i guess I got a little upset since you mentioned my father who has been dead for a a long time now Lol, your language began before your father was even mentioned. Try again. Dude can we forget this now. lets stick to the topic. Oh and i can see why you like Mike now I mentioned my father being dead and no "i'm sorry to hear that" statements
Last edited by JCrusher; 08/13/11 04:15 PM.
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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: Immobiliare]
#610904
08/13/11 04:19 PM
08/13/11 04:19 PM
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You two guys: cut it out! Take it to PM's if you have issues with each other,and let's keep this interesting thread civil.
My view: I don't think Michael literally blamed Tom for Sonny's death, but I think he resented the fact that Sonny's death in effect forced him into becoming heir-apparent.
People don't always act logically. Logically, Michael could have walked away from the Donship. Logically, it was Sonny's rashness, not Tom's failure, that caused Sonny's death. But I think Michael put the two together and built a resentment for Tom.
Michael told Tom, "You're not a wartime consigliere." He was right. In the novel, Tom admits it to himself ("Old Genco would have smelled a rat..." after Sonny's death). But, consistent with Michael's character, Tom was Sonny's choice for brother, and Vito's choice for consigliere--not his.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: Immobiliare]
#610907
08/13/11 04:23 PM
08/13/11 04:23 PM
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JCrusher
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Re: Micheal never forgave Tom...
[Re: Turnbull]
#610908
08/13/11 04:30 PM
08/13/11 04:30 PM
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You two guys: cut it out! Take it to PM's if you have issues with each other,and let's keep this interesting thread civil.
My view: I don't think Michael literally blamed Tom for Sonny's death, but I think he resented the fact that Sonny's death in effect forced him into becoming heir-apparent.
People don't always act logically. Logically, Michael could have walked away from the Donship. Logically, it was Sonny's rashness, not Tom's failure, that caused Sonny's death. But I think Michael put the two together and built a resentment for Tom.
Michael told Tom, "You're not a wartime consigliere." He was right. In the novel, Tom admits it to himself ("Old Genco would have smelled a rat..." after Sonny's death). But, consistent with Michael's character, Tom was Sonny's choice for brother, and Vito's choice for consigliere--not his.
Ok, I'll leave it alone. The bit in bold is a very good point. The rest of your post is well put too, you seem to be suggesting atleast some slight resentment from Micheal towards Tom. I'd agree with slight resentment but I think saying 'Micheal never forgave Tom for Sonny's death' is too strong.
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