i am very familiar with the colombos (one of my fav families to follow) but i cant say i am that familiar with the outfit only with stuff from family secrets and tonny accardo, etc

yeah...they definitely have a high level of idiocy that makes the press compared to the other families. like those two goons that tried to shake down the jazz bar on avenue B because they liked the place. But with an alleged 90 made guys and who knows how many associates, theres gonna be some morons making waves. my point is what about the guys that don't make waves? There's a lot more of those guys than the rats, than the gangs who can't shoot straight, all of that that makes the news.

Like I said before the fact that they were more or less the dominant family down at a wiseguy's dream job - the WTC site - is pretty impressive. The fact that they were down there at all says something in how they stand with the other families. I'm sure ppl like Souza and Franzese's son are not even recgonized by other families, even people like Calabro who was a Capo was alledgedly disrespected on the street... but theres definitely some Colombo guys that hold a lot of influence in new york a lot more than we all think

Well if you're not familiar with the Outfit, how can you say how strong it is?

You mentioned how much the government seized in the Family Secrets case. Well, for starters they confiscated a little over $1 million in cash and jewelry from Frank Calabrese's home. They also seized Marcello's M&M Amusement business. The government wanted a total of $20.2 million forfeiture, with another $4.4 million in restitution to the victims, but all of that is proceeds they've figured back to the 1960's.

You mentioned rigged bids. The most notable in recent years was the 2004 "Hired Truck Program" scandal that $40 million in rigged bids going to 26 trucking companies. But only some of them were mob-connected. Over the last five or six years DiFronzo's D&P Construction has been in the news a lot. But the controversy comes from the local townships giving a mobbed up company a little over $5 million in contracts. There was also a bid rigging scheme Rudy Fratto got caught up in involving forklifts at trade shows but I never saw a dollar amount in that case.

Yeah, the Sarno crew was making money from video poker machines, as well as $1.8 million from jewelry robberies. Not exactly unusual mob activity that is unique to the Outfit though. And what's the difference between the Outfit and the Colombos owning or shaking down strip clubs?

The coffee boy scam was just something on the side of the Colombo's control of Laborers Local 6A. If you've got any number of coffee boys who are the only ones who are allowed to sell coffee, juice, etc. on Local 6A sites, bringing in up to $1,000 a week each, for which they have to kick up to the Colmombos, that can add up.

But even that's small potatoes compared to the millions in kickbacks, no-show jobs, etc. the Colombos took have taken from the Operating Engineers & Elevator Constructors Union over the past several years. Or the millions more they've made in any number of "pump and dump" stock scams over the past decade.

thanks for the 411, the difference is as opposed to the Colombo who compete with 4 other ny families essentially chasing the same dollar, the outfit is the only mob family in chicago, if the outfit really wasnt making as much money as I suspect they were then I think there would be a proliferation of more rats in the family (i.e. the colombos) who figured there is no use in being a stand up guy because once you come out you will either be put on the shelf/make very little cash...

You know the Colombos (or the Colmombos) are finished when people are desperately trying to make their little coffee boy racket seem valuable.

By thatlogic, the Bruno/Scarfo family must be stronger than the Colombos because they have Philadelphia all to themselves.



By that logic, Detroit must be stronger than the Colombos since they've only had Nove Tocco flip in recent years.

Desperately? No need to be desperate when the facts show the Colombos are bigger and more active than any remaining family outside New York. And, as I already pointed out, the coffee boy racket was just a side thing to their overall control of the union local. It's just an example of how the mob finds a way to squeeze any last dollar they can.

Speaking of the Outfit, a recent article....


Weakened by convictions, Chicago mob still running schemes, experts say -
Illinois casino expansion might provide new opportunity for the Outfit
By Gerry Smith, Tribune Reporter
June 20, 2011


It has been a quarter-century since the two brothers were found, one on top of the other, buried in a shallow grave in a freshly planted Indiana cornfield.

The June 1986 slayings of Las Vegas mob chieftain Anthony Spilotro and his brother, Michael, captured national attention and became part of mob lore.

The movie "Casino" immortalized their deaths — albeit incorrectly — and the "Family Secrets" trial detailed their final moments of life, including Anthony Spilotro's request to say a prayer before being beaten and strangled in a Bensenville basement.

On the 25th anniversary of the Spilotro slayings, the mob in Chicago has been weakened by dozens of convictions within its hierarchy, but it has not faded away, according to organized-crime experts. It keeps a lower profile, issuing high-interest loans and running illegal betting games but shying away from attention-getting mob hits, they say.

"It is safe to say with complete certainty that (the Outfit's) size, scope and sphere of influence is much smaller today than it was 25 years ago," FBI spokesman Ross Rice said.

In fact, the Outfit has become so secretive that mob watchers are no longer sure who the top boss is. Joseph "the Builder" Andriacchi, John "No Nose" DiFronzo and Michael "The Large Guy" Sarno are considered three of the Outfit's top-ranking members, according to the Chicago Crime Commission.

The Chicago mob once had as many as seven street crews, but is down to two or three, Rice said. It has found a steady source of revenue by controlling video poker machines, but authorities are catching on.

In December, Sarno and four co-defendants were found guilty of running a video poker racket, pulling off a string of armed robberies that spanned three years and four states, and protecting their gambling franchise by planting a bomb in front of a Berwyn business that encroached on their turf.

Furthermore, the landmark Family Secrets mob conspiracy trial in 2007 pulled back the curtain on murder after murder, including the slayings of the Spilotro brothers. Mob hit man Nicholas Calabrese's testimony led to the conviction of five men, including mob bosses James Marcello, Joey "the Clown" Lombardo and his brother, Frank Calabrese Sr.

In 2009, Marcello, Lombardo and Calabrese Sr. were each sentenced to life in prison.

But while the Family Secrets case dealt a major blow to organized crime in Chicago, the Outfit has not been eliminated and probably never will be, said James Wagner, former president of the crime commission and former chief of the Chicago FBI's organized-crime section.

Wagner said the Outfit corners a market that will always be in demand — vice. Whether it's providing loans to borrowers who can't get them through banks or taking bets from gamblers who don't have money, the mob provides a service — albeit an illegal one, Wagner said.

"There will always be somebody to purchase the goods they sell," said Wagner, now inspector general of the Illinois Tollway. "I don't see us ever eliminating it."

The last suspected instance of foul play within the Chicago mob was in September 2006, when mob boss Anthony Zizzo, 71, disappeared. His Jeep was found two days later in the parking lot of a Melrose Park restaurant. He has never been found.

The proposed expansion of casinos in Illinois could be a golden opportunity for organized crime to make a comeback, said Art Bilek, executive vice president of the crime commission.

The state's gambling legislation does not provide additional regulatory personnel, which could allow the Outfit to enrich itself by infiltrating thousands of new gambling positions, Bilek said.

The plan lawmakers approved includes a Chicago casino and four others in Danville, Rockford, Lake County and southern Cook County. Gov. Pat Quinn continues to review the proposal, a spokeswoman said.

It's possible, Bilek said, that the Outfit could regain influence in a business once ruled in Nevada by Anthony Spilotro, one of its most notorious members.

At the time of his murder, Anthony Spilotro, 48, oversaw the Chicago mob's interests in Nevada. He was scheduled to stand trial a second time in Nevada on charges he ran the Hole-in-the-Wall gang, a Las Vegas burglary ring. Meanwhile, Michael Spilotro, 41, was under indictment in Chicago on federal extortion charges.

The brothers were targeted because they were bringing too much heat to the mob's Las Vegas arm, according to Nicholas Calabrese, a made member of the mob and the government's star witness during the Family Secrets trial.

In addition, Anthony Spilotro was rumored to be involved in moving drugs with a motorcycle gang and having an affair with the wife of Chicago bookmaker and reputed mob associate Frank "Lefty" Rosenthal, Calabrese testified.

But in a recent interview, their brother, Patrick Spilotro, 74, a retired dentist who aided federal authorities in the Family Secrets investigation, said he remains unsure why his brothers were targeted. Much of Anthony Spilotro's notoriety was overblown, he said.

"They put (Anthony) in their cross hairs," Patrick Spilotro said of the Outfit. "I don't know why. Jealousy, envy, hate, you name it. Whether it was deserved or not, I can't answer that. But I know a lot of it is made up. I don't say my brother (Anthony) was an angel, but he's not all they depicted him to be."

On June 14, 1986, the Spilotro brothers left Michael's Oak Park home, lured to a Bensenville basement under the ruse they were to be promoted within the Outfit, Calabrese testified.

Instead, they were jumped by a hit team, beaten and strangled.

In February 2009, James Marcello was sentenced to life in prison for the deaths of the Spilotro brothers. But Patrick Spilotro said he will never find peace until reputed Outfit boss DiFronzo is also put behind bars.

Calabrese testified in 2007 that DiFronzo was among the dozen or more men who fatally beat Anthony and Michael Spilotro in 1986, but he was never charged.

"We've tried to heal over the years," Patrick Spilotro said by phone from Arizona, "but there's still one person out there — John DiFronzo — who has not been indicted or convicted."

DiFronzo did not return a call seeking comment.

Calabrese's testimony also dispelled the popular belief — depicted in the 1995 Martin Scorsese movie "Casino" — that the Spilotro brothers were beaten with bats in a farmer's field.

On June 23, 1986, their bodies were found buried in a wildlife preserve in Enos, Ind., about 70 miles southeast of Chicago. The brothers — clad only in undershorts — were identified by dental charts supplied by Patrick Spilotro.

Their discovery was an embarrassment for the Outfit. Three months later, John Fecarotta, a longtime muscleman for the 26th Street Crew, was shot to death in a doorway of a bingo hall on West Belmont Avenue. Informants said he was killed for botching the burials of the Spilotro brothers, according to court documents.

The bodies were found by a farmer who thought the freshly turned earth hid the remains of a deer killed out of season and buried by a poacher.

Deland Szczepanski and Dick Hudson, who both worked at the time for the Indiana Division of Fish and Wildlife, drove to the scene and began digging.

Hudson hit something soft with a shovel, then Szczepanski dug deeper with his hands until he uncovered short hairs that he initially thought belonged to a hog, he said in an interview. But he soon realized they were from a man's abdomen, Szczepanski said.

Szczepanski called law enforcement. A few days later, he learned the two men he dug up were no ordinary victims but notorious mobsters.

"We realized we had uncovered somebody who wasn't supposed to be found," said Szczepanski, who is now 46 and a conservation officer with the Indiana Department of Natural Resources. "It's one of those instances I'll probably never forget."

In the days that followed, the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Chicago denied the Spilotro brothers a public church funeral because of their links to organized crime, and more than 2,000 mourners attended their visitation.

They were buried at Queen of Heaven Cemetery in Hillside, where the Spilotros regularly visit to maintain the family plot, Patrick Spilotro said.

"We don't forget our relatives," he said. "We're a very close family."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-spilotro-slayings-20110620,0,4968297,full.story

If you think about it, it's already astonishing that an organization as the Outfit which was formed by Al Capone still exists to this day. And there are probably even some guys left that personally knew Capone.

Just imagine that someone who fought at Waterloo against Napoleon was still living in the early 20th century...

Well almost-- the last veteran of Waterloo died in 1898. The last veteran of WWI passed away last month at 110. Tony Accardo was in his 20's during the Capone era and would have been 105 if still around.

I think we can both agree the coffee boy thing is a little embarrassing for a family that was once considered untouchable. Do we know who's running it right now? I remember when Tommy Shots got indicted, they didn't even have a boss for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if it's every man for himself in that family now. They don't appear to have many quality players left on the street.

The thing is, the coffee boy racket isn't necessarily a reflection of the current status of the Colombo family. Even at the mob's peak, they were always inclined to go after every last dollar.

Apparently a few years ago the 4 NY families were going to disband the Colombos but out of respect for Carmine Persico they didnt.I think once the snake dies they will it will start of with the colombos not being allowed to make other guys then the crews will be split up into differant families and the captains of those crew will have to kick up to the new bosses.

Gaspipe and Gotti each tried to take over the entire Orena faction during the colombo wars so if this has happend before it shows that the colombos have already been approached about a possible takeover

alright i gave you the benefit of the doubt u took it out of context, detroit and philly are not as big markets as opposed to ny or chicago

The talk at the last Commission meeting about disbanding the Colombos was just that - talk. Mainly because there were still problems from the Colombo war in the early 1990's. The Colombos will not be broken up and divided amongst the other families. They're not legitimate corporations that can just merge. Captains in other families are not going to want to take responsibility for guys they might not even know.

I had a feeling you'd bring up market size. So in that case, still going with your logic, the LA family must be stronger than the Colombos. They've got LA and all of So-Cal to themselves.

I dont think the colombo guys will go to other crews they will stay in the same crew wth the same territory and rackets under the same capo the only differance will be instead of their captain kicking up to the persicos he will have a new boss to kick up to

LA doesnt have the pool of members that NY or Chicago does, LA is not an organized crime haven its much more a street gang haven as opposed to NY which is both

the coffee boy scam is something that could have been done by any of the families. maybe other families are running it now and we don't know about it? I'd bet so.

It's just another way to make money and that shit adds up. who's gonna turn their nose up at an extra hundred grand a year? These guys, including everyone's favorite and ever so mysterious and honorable Genovese family do a lot WORSE things to make money compared to cornering the lunch market at a couple construction sites.

In fact Joe Massino was pulling a similar scam when he was in his late 20s/early 30s when he ran a lunch truck, using depot hookups he got from one of the Rastelli brothers.

any market they can corner they will..simple as that.

LA doesnt have much italians period

If I was a NY guy, I'd be looking at LA like a pedophile looks at children. That city is full of exciting opportunities.

Yeah, there are enough potential associates to recruit like those 'homeboys' and 'eses' walking around in those distinctive large white T-shirts smoking pod. Then you have numerous strip clubs and enough nice houses in Beverly Hills just waiting too get burglarized.

And if you're lucky, you even may be able to extort and beat the crap out of KassemG at Venice beach.

Not to mention La has a three strikes policy and its jails are run by sadistic mexican, nazi, and gorilla inmates.

That's part of your mistake right there. Chicago today doesn't have the recruitment pool many think it does. Hence the reason it's about the same size as other smaller families left like those in New England, New Jersey, and Philadelphia.

The first thing I'm gonna do when I come to L.A. is locate Spencer Pratt and then proceed to beat him like a red headed stepchild.

i didnt say Chicago has a big pool of recruits but it has a bigger pool than LA thats for sure

The Mexican Mafia (la Eme) will always run LA they control all the street gangs in southern California and have direct contact with the cartels in Mexico.I know there was a Genevese captain in the early 90s who was in a photo with a high ranking eme member.So i wonder what the deal was there

can u post the photo and who was the captain? was the photo in cali?

I am interested in seeing the photo too, can you post it or link it?