Because this mistake was the one that brought down the house.Had Gigante listened to the advice of Casso,who you seem to deem as an inferior,the windows case fiasco probably would have been avoided.
Doubtful. Savino was certainly a key to the investigation but, even without him, the feds likely would have cracked it some other way considering the 13 mob companies, unions, and millions of dollars involved.
Say what you will about Casso,Gotti,Persico,Massino etc. but their actions only fucked up their own families.Chin's unwillingness to kill Savino fucked up 4 families.
And why doesn't it hold any water?
Well, this is a good example.
Due to his high profile ways, Gotti brought down law enforcement and media attention on the mob not seen since Al Capone. His leadership style led to hours of FBI footage of every Gambino captain meeting at the Ravenite every week as well as hours of tape of him and the rest of the family administration discussing mob business; which in turn led to Gravano flipping. Gravano saw all the evidence against him and figured he had little chance of beating the case. And hearing Gotti badmouth him behind his back certainly didn't help. Gravano's testified not only against the Gambinos but also against numerous people in the other families. He fleshed out the hierarchies of all the families for the FBI, as well as gave them a ton of info on the mob and the construction industry.
Casso? His leadership style led to the defection of several top Lucchese guys like Al D'Arco, Peter Chiodo, etc. And like Gravano, they gave up a ton of info on all the families, the mob's involvement in numerous unions, the construction industry, etc.
Massino? It's still early but we haven't seen a domino effect of turncoats in any family in so short of time than his over the past decade.
Chin certainly screwed up by letting Savino get to close but the damage mostly did not go beyond the windows case and those involved. I believe like 9 or 10 guys were indicted. It wasn't a case of "fucking up" four families.
Please don't twist my words.By myth I meant their mystique,their image.The same way Gotti lived off the attention his daper suits and cars brought him,the same way the Genovese guys are cultivating their Keyser Soze image.
I'd be very surprised if guys like Dom Cirillo, Matty Ianniello, Barney Bellomo, Larry Dentico, etc. know who Keyser Soze is. They're not trying to "cultivate" anything. They're trying to present as little of a profile as possible. Gotti loved to make headlines. The Genovese guys try to stay out of the news as much as possible. Talk about apples and oranges.
And I never said the Genovese family was overrated.I said the Chin was overrated.Replace him with any of his powerful contemporaries and you would have the same result.
You've already been given examples of why people credit Gigante with keeping the Genovese family strong. Yes, it included others in the family, but as I said it starts from the top down. With Chin choosing to stay behind the scenes and avoid the Commission case, him picking the right captains (not one of which flipped), the extreme secrecy and attempts to avoid surveillance, etc.
Well law enforcement can't really read his mind can they?They can only speculate.If Chin wasn't interested in that stuff then why did he become a gangster?
For the record, Chin did have both a wife and a girlfriend. And he spent time back and forth between them in Manhattan and New Jersey. But who says you have to screw a ton of women to be a gangster? Where is it written you have to go nightclub hopping with an entourage to be a gangster?
After Chin had been convicted and was in prison there is an account of a conversation he had with some other inmates. One of them knew an old friend of Chin's (named Gaspar) who had moved to Vegas years before. The other inmate asked Chin why he hadn't done the same. Chin replied that he "had Vegas" right in New York. For him, running the top family in the nation was enough. And his influence extended to other places, like Boston, Philadelphia, etc.
But that doesn't even matter.If he didn't want any of that,its his business.But that doesn't make him superior to someone who did want it.
It does if certain behavior brings attention from law enforcement and the media. Gotti, for instance, openly flaunted himself for the media, which was basically a case of thumbing his nose at law enforcement. That only made the feds that much more determined to get him. Chin's unique style of playing crazy certainly brought it's own attention but not to his detriment. He kept him on the street for years where he would have probably been put away long before without it.
Around 30 years.Nothing to scoff at,especially if you're not spending those years pretending you're insane.
I'm talking about their time as boss on the street.
Gotti? About 5 years. From 1986 to his last indictment in 1990. And he was in jail for a good chunk of the time in between with his other cases.
Casso? About 7 years. From late 1986 (towards the end of the Commission trial) to 1993. And 2 of those were spent on the run.
Scarfo? About 6 years. From 1981 to 1987. And like Gotti, he had been in jail during that time on other cases.
As boss on the street, Chin lasted about 16 years. From 1981 to 1997.
You got me there.But should that be the only criteria?
If we're talking about their record as a mob boss, it's most of it.
They are indeed doing something right.But I don't think the fact that the drove Buicks and not Cadillacs thwarted the FBI's plans or caused them to say "lets leave these guys alone,the Colombos drive Escalades,lets go after them".
Them driving less flashy cars and wearing less flashy clothes is just an example of the over all low key, secretive style of the family. Obviously it's not the only thing. You could include other things like Tino Fiumara riding to meetings curled up in the back seat or trunk of a car. Or Dom Cirillo having his driver go the wrong way on a freeway ramp to avoid tails. Or them making guys go through the initiation ceremony in their underwear and a robe.
But more important examples would be how they conduct their business, which has enabled them to maintain the most presence in the labor unions and legitimate industries in New York. Or how they enforce discipline. Still very few rats to this day. And until the recent Al Bruno case up in Springfield, their murders were pretty clean - Coppola, Ricci, Izzi, etc.
So because I disagree and don't buy into Gigante being some all-powerful,infallible criminal mastermind I'm 'going against the grain' and am 'clueless'?Since we're throwing shots here I could accuse you of being a fanboy,but it's beneath me.
There is nothing which you can accuse me of being a fanboy. Everything I've said are based on the facts at hand. Law enforcement officials, former gangsters, and journalists have said the same thing. Are they fanboys?
Guys like Tony Accardo or Trafficante jr. achieved everything he did without spending years pretending to be insane,yet they don't have this Leonardo DaVinci of crime aura attached to them.
Nobody is saying Chin was the only great boss in the history of the mob. Or even the greatest. But all things considered - the time frame in which he was boss, his few mistakes, the effects of his leadership on his family, the stated opinions of experts on him, etc. - nobody can say he is overrated.
