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Why Did Michael Scream at Frankie?
#595442
02/24/11 07:09 PM
02/24/11 07:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
OP
Consigliere to the Stars
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OP
Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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When Michael comes to Frankie's house unannounced, he is scraming to him about how he was ambushed in his room where his wife sleeps and where his children come to play with their toys.
In the next breath he is telling Frankie he knows Roth was behind the hit and he enlists Frankie to help him take revenge.
So what is the point of Michael's outburst? It is unlike Michael to lose it the way Sonny did, and if he was already sure Roth was the culprit, he could not have been "testing" Frankie.
Last edited by dontomasso; 02/25/11 11:28 AM.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Whi Did Michael Scream at Frankie?
[Re: dontomasso]
#595446
02/24/11 07:40 PM
02/24/11 07:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 599 Toronto, Ontario
dontommasino
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 599
Toronto, Ontario
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[PENTANGELI shuts the door.] You heard what happened in my home?
PENTANGELI
Mike, I almost died myself -- we was all so relieved --
MICHAEL (shouting)
In my home! In my bedroom, were my wife sleeps! Where my children come and play with their toys. In my home.
Was Pentangeli there that night?
What I sort of get from this is that perhaps Michael felt that Frankie didn't acknowledge the implications of this! The fact that the Don's house was penetrated so...?
Last edited by dontommasino; 02/24/11 07:43 PM.
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Re: Whi Did Michael Scream at Frankie?
[Re: dontomasso]
#595448
02/24/11 07:43 PM
02/24/11 07:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325 MI
Lilo
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
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I don't think that Michael was 100% sure that Frankie wasn't involved somehow. He shows up unannounced and tells Frankie "I didn't want you to know I was coming". Even though he was pretty sure it was Roth I think the outburst was Michael's way of gauging Frankie. More importantly even someone as self-contained as Michael still needed to vent sometimes and Frankie happened to be the person unfortunate enough to be around. Lastly it is also an excellent opportunity to shame/manipulate Frankie into doing what he had been balking at doing-settle the troubles with the Rosatos. Frankie just pawn in game of life.
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
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Re: Whi Did Michael Scream at Frankie?
[Re: olivant]
#595520
02/25/11 11:44 AM
02/25/11 11:44 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
OP
Consigliere to the Stars
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OP
Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Sometimes I think we read too much into some scenes. It's pretty simple. Michael was outraged that someone fired at least a clip of bullets into his bedroom and nearly killed his wife. Maybe he had more of Sonny in him than we knew.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Whi Did Michael Scream at Frankie?
[Re: dontomasso]
#595605
02/26/11 01:22 PM
02/26/11 01:22 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,544 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,544
AZ
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A brilliant scene showing Michael at his most manipulative:
He came there with an agenda: to first play on Frankie's fear that he suspected him in the Tahoe shooting; and then, taking advantage of Frankie's relief, to maneuver him into a dangerous meeting with the Rosatos. Michael couldn't lose: by agreeing to meet with the Rosatos, Frankie erased whatever tiny, lingering doubt Michael may have had about who was responsible for the Tahoe shooting. If he kissed and made up with the Rosatos, it'd take a worrisome problem off Michael's chest. If the Rosatops atttacked Frankie, it'd not only be further confirmation of Roth's guilt, but it'd give Michael a leg up on Roth if he needed it.
Toward that end: Michael's goal in Havana was to stall Roth on the $2 million long enough to find out who the traitor was in his family. In his last meeting with Roth, he tried to play the Frankie-killed card: after Roth challenged him on why he hadn't brought the bagful of money Fredo brough to Havana, Michael replies, belligerantly, "Who had Frank Pentangeli killed?", as if it was some kind of quid pro quo. But then Roth brilliantly outmaneuvered him with the world-beating Moe Green speech.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Whi Did Michael Scream at Frankie?
[Re: Turnbull]
#595608
02/26/11 01:55 PM
02/26/11 01:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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...If the Rosatops atttacked Frankie, it'd not only be further confirmation of Roth's guilt, but it'd give Michael a leg up on Roth if he needed it. ... after Roth challenged him on why he hadn't brought the bagful of money Fredo brough to Havana, Michael replies, belligerantly, "Who had Frank Pentangeli killed?", as if it was some kind of quid pro quo. But then Roth brilliantly outmaneuvered him with the world-beating Moe Green speech. Amazingly though, even after being outmaneuvered in BOTH these instances (as well as others), Michael in the end prevails over Roth. Of course as the 'hero' for lack of a better word...Michael HAS to win against all odds or the story wouldn't work. What makes it such a compelling story (despite the numerous writing flaws) is how he ultimately does prevail...and yet is so alone and isolated in the end.
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: Whi Did Michael Scream at Frankie?
[Re: olivant]
#595612
02/26/11 03:19 PM
02/26/11 03:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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TB, I'm reluctant to disagree with you, but I will regarding Michael's motivation. I don't think Michael's manipulating Frankie took place. Michael told Frankie quite clearly in Tahoe that his family was still called Corleone and Frankie was too much of an old soldier not to understand what Michael meant by that. Yes, but that was BEFORE the attack. When it comes to all thing Godfather related olivant, I almost always agree with you and feel that you have great opinions and insight in regards to the trilogy. However on this one I have to agree with TB. As Apple said above, TB explained it brilliantly at one of the dinners we were at and I believe that if you were there to hear it, instead of reading it in words, you too would agree.
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Whi Did Michael Scream at Frankie?
[Re: olivant]
#595614
02/26/11 03:24 PM
02/26/11 03:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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...Michael is the Big Don and Frankie is the little Don, Frankie realized that and, again, he was too much of an old soldier not to follow orders until he thought that Michael tried to kill him... True...and if that's all there were to it then there would've been no need for Michael to pay this surprise visit to Frankie in the first place. Frankie had already conceded that despite his need to vent his disgust and distrust of Roth, that there would be no trouble from him. That meant he would do what he was told...but wouldn't like it. Michael knew that was true when he allowed Frankie to go home ("The old man had too much wine...") He DID need to manipulate Frankie and that's exactly what he did do in this scene. And by the way, the manipulation begins right here (if not prior to Frankie even entering his own house): FRANKIE: Don Corleone, I wish you had let me know you were coming; I could've prepared something for you.
MICHAEL: I didn't want you to know I was coming.
Last edited by AppleOnYa; 02/26/11 03:36 PM.
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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