Fredo and Frank Pentangeli seem to have enjoyed a long-delayed reunion at Anthony’s party. The dialog (“Fredo, you sonofabitch, you look great!” “I thought you was never comin’ out West, you big bum”) tells me they hadn’t seen each other in years—perhaps not since Sonny sent Fredo to Nevada 12 years earlier. But, after the shooting, Johnny Ola calls Fredo to tell him he needs more information, specifically: “Pentangeli says he's willing to make the deal. All we want to know is if he's on the level or if he's gonna bring his boys.”


How would Fredo know, or find out, that information? Michael never confided in Fredo to begin with, and he certainly would not have called anyone other than Tom while he was away in Florida, New York and Havana. Fredo could not have known about Frankie’s upcoming with the Rosatos because Michael had just proposed it to Frankie. And, since Fredo and Pentangeli obviously hadn’t seen each other in years, it’d be absurdly suspicious if Fredo suddenly called Pentangeli and said, “Hiya, Frankie, I hear you’re gonna make the deal with the Rosatos. Are you on the level or are you gonna bring your boys?”

Sloppy writing is one possible explanation: FFC and Puzo needed to tip us off that Fredo was the traitor, and so they just wrote some throw-away dialog to bring it off. But I think there’s another possible explanation:

I’ve always believed that Fredo was in with Roth and Ola far deeper than he let on. One example: After conspiring with R&O to set Michael up, Fredo might have looked ahead and asked about possible retaliation from New York. Pentangeli was still loyal to Michael and would have provided muscle in a war that might have resulted following Michael’s assassination and Fredo’s ascendency to the Donship, which is no doubt what R&O promised him. So, Ola told Fredo, “Don’t worry. We’re using the Rosatos to set up a rift between Michael and Pentangeli so it’ll look like he ordered the hit. Then the Rosatos will take over New York—and they’ll be loyal to us, and to you.”

Your thoughts?

Well TB, as you state, I do think that sloppy writing plus authorial license explains alot about what you cite. Also, cramming weeks if not months and years into a 4 hour film is also a factor. Fredo was desperate, it seemed, for recognition. Such desperation combined with his inability to decipher scheming by and motives of others made him vulnerable to flattery and blandishments. So, I don't think Fredo was capable of looking ahead.

On the other hand, Frankie's meeting with the Rosatos was only set after Michael visited Frankie at his home and not right after the shooting, right? Fredo found out about the meeting because Ola told Fredo during the late night telephone call.

Ok, just trying to remind myself of the timeline here before I make a reply to the subject itself.

Michael meets with Roth after the shooting...brings up Pentangeli...."small potatoes"...then Michael goes to see Frankie...tells him to settle with Rosato bros.

Frankie contacts the Rosato Brothers right after seeing Michael and sets up the meeting. Obviously the Rosato Brothers contact Ola and tell him that Frankie has requested a meeting with them......Ola then informs Roth and they decide that Ola needs to call Fredo to try and find out what Fredo may know about the meeting.

Now you are asking :



I agree. At this point Michael would have NEVER confided that kind of information to Fredo, or anyone else for that matter except Tom ("Right now, you're the ONLY one that I can trust")




Again I agree. However, being that Fredo had already conspired with Ola and Roth ( regardless if he knew or didn't know that it would be a hit ) Ola may have assumed that Fredo had been a part of this plan by Michael to have Pentangeli sit down with the Rosato Brothers. So Ola took a shot by calling Fredo hoping that either Fredo knew or could at the very least find out and provide him with any details about the proposed Pentangeli / Rosato sit down.



You think too much of him kid -- He's not that clever. He's not that smhat!

I don't know that I agree that Fredo would have been worried about New York and Pentangeli because I still don't believe that Fredo would conspire to have Michael killed in order to get some power and have some say. I don't believe for one moment that if Ola and Roth told Fredo that they were going to kill Michael, that Fredo would have went along with them. I believe that they fooled Fredo into thinking that if he helped them that there would be something in it for him. That he then would be looked upon by his brother Michael and the Corleone family with more respect.....and I believe that Fredo bought that line.

Ola was fishing for any info he could get. Who else could Ola turn to for inside information? Fredo was his contact - their arch enemy's brother. They already had Fredo feeding them info, so, yes, they figured that he knew about the meeting.

WOW! Great debate guys, both Olivant, and Don Cardi make great points. I personally agree with all of them (points). The degree of betrayal will always be debated, however all that was just discussed makes perfect sense, recently wathing "II" again i was focusing on those points in particular and came to a very similar if not the same conclusion about Fredo's involvement. He wanted to take over and believed R&O, whether he "knew" it was gonna be a hit or not will always be debated. i believe he did. He was the only one to access the house comfortably and "open the drapes". Also in a very early scene at Anthony's First Communion reception, when Fredo "apologizes" to Michael about his wife. Notice the expression on Fredo's face when Michael tells him he don'y have to apologize. The expression (on Fredo)is one of "knowing something", "worry"' and almost "guilt" simutaniously. Is that a clue? John Cazale was such a great actor and could show a lot with settle expression! any other thoughts?

heres a good thread thats related to this subject

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=594262#Post594262

great insights