Here's a little Mafia 101 for you, Mr. Insider. What makes a guy a "made member" or not is whether he has gone through the formal initiation ceremony. Not who he "answers to." The people who actually answer to DiFronzo directly are said to be very few, i.e. other high level guys in the Outfit. Now, guys way down the line could be said to answer to the boss indirectly by extension. But that could be said about associates (guys who are not made) as well.

You can sit by that 250 number all you want. I doubt anyone will take you seriously. I mean, maybe if you had said 100 or so, you could have convinced a few of the more gullible ones to believe you. But 250? 5 TIMES the average current estimates? And then you start talking about Outfit factions in places like Nebraska? C'mon.

Bottom line, I consider all the available evidence and go from there. You are apparently the one who "wants to believe" the Outfit still has 250 made guys. I don't live in Chicago so I really don't have a dog in this fight. You, like many other Chi-town guys I've encountered, seem to feel the need to defend the reputation of your home town crime family as if they were the Cubs or White Sox.

They're small in numbers but they control all the corn raising and cow tipping rackets in most of the state.

haha almost too good to be true!
LCN going back to their roots as rural Sicilian peasants.
Still, I'm sure that it's a pretty steady source of income, so why not.
But I wonder if they have similar handles in the other under-populated mid-western/northern states with little experience of combatting organized crime. Say Montana, Wisconsin or whatever. Extorting the vast mineral/coal mining activities in these areas would be profitable.

I am an Outfit expert and there is no way in hell they have 250 made members.

Maybe you grew up around some guys who owned a pizza parlor who liked to pull your chain.

Frank Calabrese told his kid in the late 90s that you could take over the whole thing by getting rid of 7 guys.

Now that's probably more like 3.

Is there anyone in here who thinks The Genovese family isn't the most powerful family on American soil? Aside from capocapo1.

I strongly believe Charles Herbert Gotti's organization is the most powerful.

You might be right. Charlie Herb is a bad motherfucker.

No one who is not in the mob is an "insider" in the mob. They don't even tell their wives and kids what they do let alone the guy down the corner.

Under Capone and Accardo the Chicago Outfit was probably the most powerful criminal organization in the history of the United States but it's all but dead today.

Outside of new york there is only 4 families left according to the fbi. They r philly, new england, new jersey and chicago. Who is thoight to b the most powerful of these 4 families ??? And do we think they all still report to the new york families or do we think they just do there own thing now a days ??

Well there's also L.A. and even though they're a joke, they're still active and seem to own quite a bit of real estate down there.

As far as which of these is the strongest, it's hard to say. If I had to bet, I'd probably say Chicago.

Barber, I assure you there are more than 4 families left outside NY. They may be small but they are still there and have activity. My Dad thought it was finally safe to enter the vending machine business in the St. Louis and found out otherwise.

The 4 you mentioned have much larger size, with Chicago being probably larger than Philly and New England. Not sure how many Decavalcante's are left, but NJ is full of guys from the 5 Families and Philly.

Agreed Vinny, outside of NY, Chicago is likely the strongest.

Don't know much about any other mobs but the Outfit. I would guess Chicago is down to 10-20 "made" members; the majority of their income now comes from the kind of pathetic racket of video poker machines in the dumpier suburbs around the city...haven't killed anyone (at least visibly) in about a decade.

I think the Outfit is more or less dead. The gist of the situation seems to be that there are just a handful of old timers sitting around collecting on their investments.

The young people smart enough to keep it going have no interest and those who might be interested in "joining" aren't smart enough.

There will always be a few guys hanging around claiming lineage probably but the link to the old organization will probably die with John DiFronzo.

Down to 10-20 members? I'm no expert on the Outfit, but I have a feeling you're wrong lol.

I doubt it. The FBI heavily infiltrated the Outfit during Family Secrets/2007. Nick Calabrese spilled the beans on everything; what he didn't spill his brother did to his son in the prison yard when his son Frank Jr. was wearing a wire.

The FBI estimated about 50 made members back in the late 90s; at least half were very old and are now dead.

What I'm saying is the Outfit is working under greater transparency than ever before here. I can give you the names of say six big players and a dozen affiliated guys and there isn't a single one under the age 50-60 and most are far older.

I think the Outfit is on the way out.

Well I hope you're right. Never liked The Outfit. Too many homos.

Ha! I don't know what you're talking about. But if it's an East Coast thing...under Capone, Arcaddo and Giancanna, the Outfit absolutely dwarfed anything you guys had. The Outfit controlled every racket west of the Mississippi, Vegas and to a degree Hollywood. When the CIA wanted to kill Castro they approached Sam Giancana, not whatever loser was running your goombah five families out there.

First, average estimates for current Outfit membership is approximately 50 members. The Chicago Crime Commission estimated 70 back in 1997. More recently, the feds have cited estimates ranging anywhere from 25-50. Nick Calabrese supposedly identified 60 members during the Family Secrets case. And not too long ago the feds supposedly released a the names of 47 made members to the local Chicago press. And judging by the amount of continuing mob activity there, it's likely the total membership is closer to 50 than only 10 or 20.

Second, video poker is a huge money maker for the mob. That, along with sports betting, is the Outfit's bread and butter and brings in millions. And they are still involved in other traditional rackets like loansharking, extortion, burglary rings, as well as legitimate interests such as restaurants, strip clubs, real estate, construction, etc.

Third, as far as recent Outfit hits go, you have Ronnie Jarrett in 1999, Anthony Chiaramonti in 2001, and Tony Zizzo in 2006.

That said, I don't have the same outdated notions about the Outfit many still do. The Outfit was never the most powerful family in the country. That's always been the Genovese family. And today, the Outfit is one of the smaller families left. But it's certainly not dead.

Ivy, I saw that article that named about 50 made members of the Outfit. They also listed about 20-30 associates. I cannot find a copy online.

I agree that the Genovese family is the strongest today, but would argue that the Gambino's eclipsed them during Carlo's reign.

Hahahaha The Outfit is and always has been a joke compared to New York. We're talking five families with well over 1000 made guys in total during the peak of it all. Even back in 1927, Al Capone couldn't touch Lucky Luciano or any of the other guys. You know why? Because of Arnold Rothstein.

As far as Giancana goes, he couldn't even maintain respect within his own organization. How do you think he was perceived outside it? The man was an embarrassment. A loser. And it may not have been true, but I have heard Accardo was a closet homosexual who liked to dress up in woman's clothes and call himself Rhonda.

CHECK AND MATE!

The Feds are notorious for overestimating both the mob’s membership and profits. That "50 estimate" may have been REPORTED recently but it dates back to the early 2000s, at least. If you’re talking about “made guys,” I would guess there’s not a chance it’s anywhere close to 50.

You're right about Zizzo and Chiarmanti.

Guess who the Feds identified as “major mobsters” still on the loose after Family Secrets?

I can’t find that list now but it consisted primarily of DiFronzo ,Joseph Andriacchi, Al Tornabae, Rudy Fratto, Mike Sarno, Frank Caruso and a few others.

Andriacchi is practically dead. Ditto Tornabrae, he’s 90 years old and senile. Fratto is a joke and in prison, Sarno is on the way to prison.

The point is that even throwing out their “biggest fish” the FBI identified a handful of, without exaggerating, very senile old men.

You’re telling me that the FBI or papers can’t finger even one—not one—guy involved in this vast criminal conspiracy under the age of 60?

Outfit is very close to dead.

And I doubt the Genovese were as powerful as Giancana, Accardo or Capone. Capone’s mob had about 3,000 associates at one time.

The truth about Al Capone is far different from the legend of Al Capone. In truth, Al Capone was little more than a successful gang leader who had very limited power over his own city.

agreed

i believed that you've seen casino one to many times my friend. perhaps you also believe that the ice man killed roy demeo, jimmy hoffa, and big paul?

What is this, a sports rivalry? East Coast-West Coast? And loser running the five families?

Hey, I'm not a mob apologist. I try to call these guys out for the scumbag lowlifes that most of them are, but you gotta be kidding me.

While it's true that Chicago always governed itself, without the political connections fostered by Frank Costello and the more pragmatic leaders of the New York families, during the '30s and '40s, and their spreading that political influence out west--yes, out west--the whole thing would have fallen apart 50 years ago.

And just for the record, Sam Giancana was a rat who got what he deserved .

The greatest thing about him is he believes The Outfit has shrunk down to as a little as 10 made guys. 10 homos left . Yet, he loves them and insists they 'dwarfed' anything New York did.

There is so much disinformation on here it's impossible to address it all. Measure it in dollars. Capone was a billionaire--in the 20s. That's nonadjusted dollars. How about Luciano?

Capone's political fixers were Guzik and Humphreys.

There is a lot of myth surrounding Giancana but the CIA thing is real. Those records have been released. Look it up.

I don't "love" them I find the history fascinating.

Read em and weep. Trib article. Feds estimated 25 made guys in 05. The "50" figure is from 1990.

http://www.thelaborers.net/newspapers/chicago_tribune/crackdown_just_latest_hit_on_mob.htm