Yeah, there is no evidence that they are somehow bucking the general trend in the mob of slowly declining numbers. They were never a particularly large family anyway. They are relatively small, tight-knit family with a lot of blood members. This helps cohesion and loyalty but does not fend off general attrition. There is no reason to believe they have any more than 30 members at most at this point, especially considering that's what the feds had them at 15 years ago.

Nicky Scarfo Jr was recently indicted (again) for being part of sports betting overshore web site that grossed over 2 billion in 3 years. Luchese and Genovese operation. Do the math kids.

That particular operation involved only the Luccheses - their New Jersey faction to be exact. Most of the arrests happened back in 2007 but the actually came down earlier this year and Scarfo Jr. and a few other guys were added to it.

I notice a couple of women in there.
The Lucchese's have obviously picked themselves up and rebuilt in the years since Gaspipes rampage

At the top of the chart you have Matthew Madonna and Joe DiNapoli, both captains who were part of a 3 man ruling panel overseeing the family along with Neil Migliore. Below them is Ralph Perna, who was made Captain over the family's New Jersey crew after Nicky Scarfo Jr. was demoted. The five guys below him are all Soldiers. Below them are several associates. The two women, wives of two of the defnedants, were charged with tax fraud violations involving their husbands's illegal income. The five to the right of them were part of the Blood street gang who was smuggling cell phones and drugs into prison supplied by the Luccheses.

That isnt the total upper echelon of the Luccheses right?

nope steven crea is not on the chart

steven crea is the acting bos now right? the official title is not in use?

Reports have Crea as the Street Boss since his parole restrictions have ended, plus Joe Caridi is the Consig, and also Neil Migliore is apart of three man ruling panel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Crea

Unless there is a link in article to a reputable source, Wikipedia is often not a good source of information about the mob. There are a lot of clowns who simply put their assumptions into those Wiki articles. As far as is known up to this point, Crea is still officially the underboss. Since Madonna and DiNapoli got busted, there has been no new ruling council or acting/street boss identified yet.

And the chart above is mostly of the New Jersey faction of the family, except for Madonna and DiNapoli, who were the top guys they answered to in New York; along with Migliore. Technically, Vic Amuso remains the official boss.

so it seems they still accept Vic Amuso as the boss? In the past it would start a war for the top spot, but nowadays its staying of the radar. And Vic Amuso wasnt a reall good boss, many didnt like him.

In gangbusters book, it said that Casso ratted Vic Amuso out so that he become the official boss? is that a fact?

If I'm correct, Casso never wanted to be the boss himself, and felt most comfortable in his role as consigliere. He wanted to stay under the radar for de feds, but in reality he was the one who pulled the strings. If this was true, I don't see why he wanted to become official boss. And besides, no rat becomes a boss or stays a boss for long.

I don't have the book in front of me now but I think that was more the author's interpretation of events as only a few people knew where Amuso was and Casso was one of them.

Hindsight is always 20/20 but if Casso did drop a dime he may have hoped that throwing Amuso to the wolves would have allowed him to escape. Sort of like in one of those old WW2 movies where one soldier yells grenade and throws himself on it, thus saving his buddies. If the allegations were true Casso was the sort of fellow who would yell grenade and throw somebody else on it, thus saving himself...

Could be... i always wondered why he would do that, it didnt make any sense to me. Thats why i asked it here, there are a couple of these things in the book that makes me wonder. And the part where Fat Pete is shot, 7 bullets and still alive. And decided to flip for a pizza in the hospital

I guess the extra weight came in handy. Better to be called "Fat Pete" than "Dead Pete".

oh i believe he got shot 7 times, but the part that he agreed to cooperate with the feds for pizza thats funny. I saw a picture of Fat Pete, he is indeed very fat. Its a picture from the book Five Families, it shows Casso and Fat Pete alongside eachother and smiling. Its shocking actually, how easy it is to get killed in the mob.. especially with psycos like Casso.

Amuso remains the official boss of the Lucchese family for much the same reason that Peter Gotti remains official boss of the Gambino family. Both are going to die in prison but others in their families are content with them to have the title. Same for Carmine Persico of the Colombos, although one could argue he's had more control from prison because the Persicos are still a power in the family. But that's not to say Amuso or Gotti have no clout. Both still do.

I don't recall what was said in Gangbusters (read it long ago) but Casso didn't rat out Amuso so he could become boss. Casso was already the driving force in the family behind the throne. But it got to the point, when they were both on the run from the law, that Amuso actually put out word that Casso had been stripped of his position and authority. That no doubt was a reason for Casso flipping. And, of course, he was always out for himself.

Casso was a very interesting character and I love reading about him. Amazing earner, prolific psychopath two very strong points on his resume

In Gaspipe Confessions of A Mafia Boss, GCasso talks about how one day while in the can not too long ago he was I believe being transferred to another jail when he was booked on the same bus,plane as Amuso. And they started chatting an Amuso said I can tell by looking at your face you regret ratting. And Casso said he was right and he went on about how the Feds had screwed him,etc.

I have sat here and read all your posts. Now I will put in my 2 cents for what it is worth. This coming from someone with great knowledge of organized crime. The Chicago Outfit is much larger than the FBI estimates. There made members is somewhere in the vicinity of 250. Ivy League you talk about how people are basing this on 30 years ago. I can tell you that I am not. And the current head of the Chicago Outfit would tell any of the 5 New York Families to go to he**. There is no way he would answer to them. I am not saying the Chicago Outfit is stronger or larger than the Genovese Family. But I can promise you that neither one would want to go to war with the other. Your knowledge of the New York Families seems to be pretty good, however your knowledge of organized crime outside of the 5 families is way off. Do you think the FBI really knows how many members are in each family. Come on. For your knowledge the Chicago Outfit is said to be the stongest amoung all organized crime families according to Robert Mueller Director of the FBI

Was that a friendly chat? I remember Capeci writing about it and the way he described it was like Gotti and Gravano meeting. Like Amuso hated Casso with every fiber of his being. I'm gonna try and find that article.

250 made guys? How sure are you of that number?

You can find it using Amazon if you search inside the book or if you use google scholar to do the same...

They probably never even had that many "made members". You can find a pretty good and recent chart of the Outfit on this forum, which lists about 83 made members.

This post is so absurd it's almost not even worth responding to. But what the hell?

First, you Chi-town boys really are the worst when it comes to mob fanboyism.

Second, anyone who thinks the Chicago mob has anywhere near 250 made members obviously has nowhere near a "great knowledge" of organized crime. I go with official estimates over the past decade. You won't find any credible estimate that puts the Outfit at more than 60 made members max. That's not including associates of course. The average estimate being about 50 made guys, which is about half the size of one of the smaller New York families. Furthermore, law enforcement estimates of mob family membership have been pretty consistent since they started keeping better tabs in the 1980's. Much more reliable than the 250 number you pulled out of your ass.

Third, nobody said anything about the New York families giving orders to the Outfit. In fact, I've said before that that New York and Chicago have relatively little contact nowadays.

Fourth, Robert Mueller or anyone else in the FBI has never said the Chicago Outfit is the strongest OC family. However, the feds and numerous mob experts have long said the Genovese family are. And I can provide you with a list of those comments as long as your arm if you like. Something we both know you can't do regarding your lie about what Mueller supposedly said.

Could you support this with sources? What I've read about this so far is that estimates mostly vary between 50-100.

Most sources also say the Chicago outfit has deliberatly reduced its size, maintain a low key level. So i have to go with Ivy on this, most of his estimates about the families are far more correct then other supposed estimates. No way a major mafia family has more then 200 let alone 250, only the Genovese and Gambinos have around 200.

December 2000 -
While the Outfit once claimed hundreds of inducted, or "made," members, today that figure has dwindled to perhaps 50.
http://www.laborers.org/ChicagoMag_Moblite_12_00.htm

August 2002 -
In the 1980s, the Chicago mob had roughly 200 "made" members, each of whom ran his own various illegal businesses. Today, according to the FBI, the mob is down to about 50 made members.
http://www.ipsn.org/characters/new_outfit.htm

May 2005 -
The FBI estimates that Chicago now only has 25 "made" members and another 75 organized crime associates. Federal authorities said that 15 years ago the mob had 50 "made" members and as many as 400 associates.
http://www.labor-unions.net/newspapers/chicago_tribune/crackdown_just_latest_hit_on_mob.htm

September 2007 -
Robert D. Grant, special agent in charge of the FBI's Chicago office, said the city is still plagued by 28 "made guys" and more than 100 associates who do the dirty work but are in the mob's inner circle.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-09-27-3043193147_x.htm

September 2007
We have dozens of open investigations,' John Mallul, supervisor of the FBI's organized crime unit in Chicago, said in an interview.....Mallul estimates the Outfit has about 30 'made' members and a little more than 100 associates.
http://forums.thesopranos.com/viewtopic.php?t=4173

March 2009 -
In addition to the 14 murders, Calabrese confessed to, he told prosecutors about 60 names of made men in the Outfit.
http://blogs.suntimes.com/mob/2009/03/what_the_prosecution_says_abou.html

I said in the vicinity of 250 for 1. If you are talking the Chicago Outfit than you are including all made members that report to or answer to No Nose. That makes about 250 made men. I have been around the Chicago Outfit since I was a little kid. Have watched as they have changed bosses and watched while high ranking members have gone to jail. The reason the FBI and others think that they are only at 50 is because thats what they want you to think. Once again you can go off the numbers you read and think that is true. However I will go with who I know and see everyday. I told you once I have great knowledge of organized crime. I have been around high ranking outfit members my whole life. Played with there kids, went to there parties, hell one is my god father for heaven sake. So you believe what you want and I will go with what I know

Those are two pretty conflicting reports. They went from 50 made guys to suddenly 25 in less than three years?

And they had only 50 made guys in 1990? Maybe "active" members, otherwise forget about it. I'm pretty conservative myself, by I have an FBI chart of the Outfit in 1983 which lists about 175 made members.

I'm getting the impression that the FBI are playing with these numbers.

isn't there a difference between made guys in Chicago versus the traditional New York sense? Like Frank Calabrese claimed he wasn't made, yet ran his own crew like a Capo. Also Roemer (who I take with huge grains of salt) said that non-italians were frequently 'made' into the Outfit