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Re: Michael and Pentangeli's conversation
[Re: U talkin' da me ??]
#1034005
05/02/22 12:05 AM
05/02/22 12:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 908 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 908
Australia
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He didn't fool Roth when he didn't do just what he told him and kill Frankie thus showing his hand, revealing to Roth, Michael didn't suspect Pentangeli was behind the Tahoe shooting And I always thought it was Fredo's wife that was the mastermind behind the Tahoe shooting... Ahh -- wrong number --!
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Re: Michael and Pentangeli's conversation
[Re: Turnbull]
#1034006
05/02/22 12:05 AM
05/02/22 12:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 908 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 908
Australia
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Michael's overarching goal was to find out who was the traitor in his family. Since he knew Roth was behind the Tahoe shooting, he needed to do just what he told Pentangeli: "Keep your friends close but your enemies closer." That's the main (but not the only) reason he went to Havana, with just a single (probably unarmed) bodyguard. Sending Frankie to meet with the Rosato brothers was something he had to do to satisfy himself of Frankie's loyalty-- like asking Carlo to admit he set up Sonny and to make him confirm that Barzini was behind it--even though he already knew the answers Whilst I acknowledge Michael and Roth were playing their cat and mouse games, among others - - neither Michael nor Roth thought the other will get out of Havana alive
- Roth gave his blessings to Michael pushing Klingman out because “Oh, Michael? Won't see him no more” [Tahoe shooting]
I believe, Michael showed his hand [without cause!] earlier on - Red flag that would have alerted Roth [if Roth was fooled prior] when Michael didn't have Pentangeli killed as he stated to Roth in Miami “Then Pentangeli is a dead man, you don't object” Besides “sending Frankie to meet with the Rosato brothers” didn't advance his quest any further in finding out the traitor in the family It ended up giving more ammunition to Roth eg: Senate hearing whereas if Michael had waited until his return from Havana – there was enough time! - then Michael's New York operation remains untouched and no Senate hearing either Surely Roth is not going to tell Michael their Havana deal is off because Pentangeli is still alive? Turnbull is a good man! My take "Frankie's loyalty" was beyond reproach
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Re: Michael and Pentangeli's conversation
[Re: Louren_Lampone]
#1034018
05/02/22 09:39 AM
05/02/22 09:39 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385 Tampa, FL
waynethegame
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
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IMHO the major difference is that Michael sending Pentangeli to a sitdown with the Rosatos was actually believable. But I always found it incredibly stupid that Vito would have sent Luca to act like he was unhappy with the family, given that everyone in the underworld would have known how loyal Luca Brasi was to Don Corleone. Even with the pretext of wanting a piece of the drug money and going behind Vito's back, thinking that enemies who might be planning a hit would accept that Luca wasn't happy is stupid, since even if he WAS unhappy, what would happen the moment Sollozzo's goons killed Vito? Luca would be after them. Ridiculous.
Pentangeli could/did have the impression that he might not like the Rosatos but "the boss" was making him play nice. That's way more believable given the circumstances and probably would have worked. But I do agree that Pentangeli was expendable.
Wayne
"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger." Don Lucchesi
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Re: Michael and Pentangeli's conversation
[Re: waynethegame]
#1034023
05/02/22 12:34 PM
05/02/22 12:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,611 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,611
AZ
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IMHO the major difference is that Michael sending Pentangeli to a sitdown with the Rosatos was actually believable. But I always found it incredibly stupid that Vito would have sent Luca to act like he was unhappy with the family, given that everyone in the underworld would have known how loyal Luca Brasi was to Don Corleone. . I started a thread on that subject a while back: http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=444618&Searchpage=1&Main=16277&Words=%2Bsilver+%2Bplatter&Search=true#Post444618
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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Re: Michael and Pentangeli's conversation
[Re: waynethegame]
#1034048
05/03/22 12:04 AM
05/03/22 12:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 908 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 908
Australia
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Pentangeli could/did have the impression that he might not like the Rosatos but "the boss" was making him play nice. That's way more believable given the circumstances and probably would have worked. But I do agree that Pentangeli was expendable. I believe Pentangeli was too valuable to Michael to be expendable ExtractsDid they have to die? However I believe Michael was not expecting Frankie to come to any harm other than the humiliating back down, perhaps handing over the three territories and in the process looking weak etc.
In my opinion if Frankie is killed and Rosato brothers, Roth's ally take over the Corleone operations then Michael loses his muscle and becomes just another casino operator, easy pickings for anyone which would be bigger worry for Michael? Rocco linked to MichaelWhilst “No one was indispensable” Michael would not sacrifice any of his men [especially his top men like Neri or Rocco] – [or his muscle Pentangeli] - whom Michael selects and counts on them to carry out their jobs successfully and get away with it
Every member is pivotal link in the chain If lost as unavoidable collateral casualty, so be it but not intentionally "expendable" nor would Michael want to lose / sacrifice his men
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Re: Michael and Pentangeli's conversation
[Re: Trojan]
#1034300
05/08/22 01:30 AM
05/08/22 01:30 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 908 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 908
Australia
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Poor Pentangeli was stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place indeed Whilst Pentangeli should have had more faith in his Don irrespective.... Michael certainly hung Pentangeli out to dry - among others - Pentangeli, a good old man who was loyal to Vito for years [and Michael] - who had come all the way from New York was kept waiting in the lobby to get an audience with Michael
- getting little or no help / support from Michael in his troubles with the Rosato brothers
- then Michael sends Pentangeli over to the Rosatos, to lay down to them and to settle these troubles with them
- Michael didn't bother to take care of Pentangeli's family after Pentangeli was 'killed' doing an unreasonable assignment for Michael, with Pentangeli's enemies who “spit right in his face”
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Re: Michael and Pentangeli's conversation
[Re: Trojan]
#1034435
05/11/22 12:00 AM
05/11/22 12:00 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 908 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 908
Australia
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If only Pentangeli had Michael's brain! Carmine Rosato: Frank -- I got nobody here Pentangeli: I trust this man with my life If I were to ask him to wait in the car, it would be an insult
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Re: Michael and Pentangeli's conversation
[Re: Capri]
#1034670
05/18/22 12:14 AM
05/18/22 12:14 AM
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Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 908 Australia
Kangaroo Don
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 908
Australia
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Michael: What's this? Ola: It's an orange -- from Miami Didn't Michael know oranges foreshadow death.... Pentangeli: What's this? Rosato
Carmine Rosato: It's a lucky C-note for our new deal We're all real happy about your decision, Frankie You're not gonna regret it
Pentangeli: I don't like the C-note Rosato -- I take that as an insult Did the Rosatos try to kill Pentangeli because Pentangeli didn't appreciate their gesture of Goodwill....
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Re: Michael and Pentangeli's conversation
[Re: Louren_Lampone]
#1034786
05/20/22 03:51 PM
05/20/22 03:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,611 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,611
AZ
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"Did the Rosatos try to kill Pentangeli because Pentangeli didn't appreciate their gesture of Goodwill?."
No. Their purpose was to kill Pentangeli:
Michael's last words to Roth in Miami were: :Frank Pentangeli is a dead man-you don't object?" Roth was the Rosatos' advocate with Michael, so he probably contacted them and said, "You heard about the shooting at Michael Corleone's place in Tahoe? Well, he knows Pentangeli was behind it. He told me that 'Frank Pentangeli is a dead man.'" He wouldn't have to "order" the Rosatos to whack Pentangeli--they'd see Roth's information as a green light to kill Pentangeli and not only to get their three territories in the Bronx, but also to take all of the Corleones' operation in NYC, too. Carpe diem. Roth also wouldn't have had to tell the Rosatos about his plan to have Michael killed in Havana--it had nothing to do with them.
Whether they sensed it or not, the Rosatos were part of Roth's grand plan: Inform them that they had the opportunity to take over Michael's "muscle" in NYC just before he had Michael killed in Havana. That way, the Corleone heirs would have no means to take revenge on him--a complete fait accompli. And, with Fredo's coglioni in his pocket, Roth would always have a hostage in whatever remained of the Corleone empire.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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