It eliminates fees that the federal government pays private lending institutions to provide education loans and loan repayment guarantees. If a bank wants to lend someone money for education they still can.

Overheard two players on the other team, at the bowling alley tonight....

"I can just about afford my own insurance plan, now with this new plan just passed, I'll have to pay some dead beats bill who sits on their ass all day and drinks. Looks like I am going out and buying a rocking chair and a case of cheap beer next week and join the Obama corp,If you can beat them, join them"

My whole team just about pissed our pants.

Yeah helping other people out is a horrible thing.

Especially since taxpayers already pay for the uninsured to be cared for in emergency rooms across the nation. If that person will have insurance, they will actually cost us LESS.

If the drug companies are happy then its a bad thing because they would be salivating over the thought of 32 million more customers at continuously exhorbitant prices. Here is your $85 Viagra pill sir, enjoy your sex, come back soon.

That's so true. I don't think people realize just how often this occurs. I imagine in bigger cities it's more widespread. If you have a bad stomach ache and don't have insurance, you go to the ER. That happens a lot in our hospitals here in California.

I had a friend some years ago, who was divorced with 3 kids and no insurance and that's exactly what she did. I couldn't even attempt to guess a dollar amount it would save, but I'm sure it'd be huge.



TIS

Now I have to honestly tell you that I think this train of thought is nothing but smoke and mirrors... Only Obama believers will think this way.

Obama's the other guy will pay for it gig is wearing thin.

So they have insurance now huh? Given to them by me paying more so they can have it right. So the taxpayer who is me and I've just paid more can save because they aren't being paid by the government tit so I saved money huh?

Question is which pocket are you taking the money out of, my left one or my right one? Because one is paying more and the other is saving it right. Of I see it is a wash...until....

now when these 32 million people who have not had insurance before , now have this insurance and they now can go into places and get help all start being fixed up because they now have insurance, the question is how much more is my rate going to go up once all these bill flood in and have to be paid by the insurance company?

Lets face it the insurance company isn't doing this at the goodness of their hearts. They are charging you the cost of all these bills and the cost of running this insurance company, better known as over head and then they need to have some profit and then they need to have some funds in their for their stock holder so they can invest...ect ect ect....


My mother goes out and buys a new dress and spends $300.00 on this new gown. My dad blows a fit because its $300.00, but Mom tells him that the gown use to be $600.00 so she just saved him $300.00 ...hahahha


A guy owes six McDonald fast food joins Each having 100 people working in it. Question is: How many people will he let go because he can't pay for all the extra insurance he has to give all these people.

Or the question is how much will his products go up to cover this extra overhead...so who is really paying once again for this insurance? that right it is me and you over and over again thru higher prices in thousands of places. Hidden in higher costs.

That is right it is going to save us money Right.- hhahahahha

You can't always listen to the salesman speech and not get screwed

Alhough I have my doubts about whether the bill in toto will reduce costs given the lack of statutory control over insurance premiums and lack of drug reimportation, the idea that it's cheaper to "give" uninsured people insurance than have them rely on emergency care or indigent services makes sense.

If someone doesn't have insurance they don't get preventative medicine/checkups or routine care where things can be diagosed and corrected at a much earlier stage. Usually they wait until symptoms can no longer be ignored. With things like cancer, diabetes, hypertension, etc, this can be pretty expensive to treat-that is of course if the person is lucky enough to be treated.

Very well said, FS (including what came in between).

Anybody who thinks ANY of this will 'save' money for ANYBODY is out there in la la land.

Problem is, it may take a few years for that reality to kick in, especially for the TRUE believers.

Apple/Pot

That's just not the case. Although no one can see the future and there are fair reasons to have doubts about the total monetary impact of the law, there are some very clear winners here.

For example, the law eliminates lifetime coverage limits. So if you happen to have a chronic disease or condition that is very expensive to treat, insurance companies can't drop you from coverage once an arbitrary limit is reached. That saves money for the sick person and their family. Most people don't have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars lying around for medical costs, even those of us who do earn nice incomes or have some wealth.

There are prohibitions from dropping people from coverage in individual plans once they get sick. That saves them money.

There are prohibitions from refusing coverage to people with pre-existing conditions. That saves those people money. Incidentally this isn't just folks without insurance. You could have a pre-existing condition and be unable to leave your job-not because you can't find another one-but because your new employer/insurer refuses to provide coverage for your "new" condition.

Parents will be able to keep children on their policies until age 26. Again, this saves both of them money.

There are legitimate reasons to oppose the new law. I don't think the individual mandate is right and in many ways the insurance companies/pharmaceutical companies made out very well. But there are still some very good things in it that people will not want to give up.

Fatherson and Apple, consider that the Chamber of Commerce (same people who backed Amnesty) won't fund any serious repeal campaigns.

Notice in fact that the "Repeal" rhetoric has gone from "kill the fucking thing" to "let's kill some of the bad parts."

Which in argumentation would admit that in the essence is good.

But hey I don't know about you two, but I'm with Nixon.

Gas line cut at home of Va. congressman's brother
By DENA POTTER (AP) – 23 minutes ago

RICHMOND, Va. — Authorities are investigating a severed propane line at the home of a Virginia congressman's brother after tea party activists posted the man's address online.

Activists are upset about U.S. Rep. Tom Perriello's vote in favor of the health care reform.

Perriello's office said that a line to a propane tank on a gas grill was cut at Bo Periello's Charlottesville home on Tuesday. Tea party activists had posted the address online thinking it was the congressman's home, telling opponents to drop by and "express their thanks" for his vote.

Albemarle County spokeswoman Lee Catlin said the county fire marshal's office was assisting the Federal Bureau of Investigation. She said investigators didn't believe the home's occupants were in danger.

How Christian in toleration.

Me, they can visit my home anytime.

*Cocks Gun*

FS, do you really think that the owners of McDonald's give all their employees insurance?? There might be a few full-timers that get benefits, and the rest are part-timers that aren't considered eligible. Plus, if the guy owns six McDonald's, I'm not crying over his wallet contents. However, that's really not the issue.

Lilo brought up excellent points. The uninsured in this country don't get physicals, don't get mammographies, colonoscopies, have their PSA tested or get pap smears. They're not receiving medication for high cholesterol or hypertension, they don't know they have diabetes.

By the time they see a doctor, they are very sick. They might have cancer or get a heart attack or stroke. Then their very expensive treatments are on our dime.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and making healthcare available for those that couldn't previously get it is going to be worth it in the long run.

Who do you think make up the 32 million people who are without insurance? We are not just talking about street people here, we are talking about the working poor who can not find full time jobs...why? because major companys hire people for only 20-25 hours so they aren't full timers. Heck hire two 20 hour people instead of one full timer.

Thousand work the malls at low pay jobs without benefits. Single moms or entry level jobs. It doesn't matter what company it is, the people all 32 million will need a way to be insured they say.

Sure, so all us great wonderful people of the world want to give everyone everything...we want world peace too! But the fact is we just don't have any trust in letting the Government run anything!

Nothing they do works well, stays in budget or does what they say it will.

Sure draw on everyone hearts strings...people need healthcare and also lets help the worlds poor also. Help every person in ever country. just sent billions like we have been doing for years...see how that has been working... do you see it working?

All I ask is that people stop thinking about all the good things that they are flashing before your eyes to make you think that this bill is the next coming of Christ for all the people and ask where these things are going to come from...They don't get these funds from the thin air. Ask what the real price tag is going to be, not the hidden price.

But then again people who are getting these new found freebies don't care, they believe that the other guys is paying for them...hahahhaha

In the future when you start seeing prices go up, taxes go up and everything you touch go up...please don't start threads crying and bitching because it was being paid for by the other guy.

It just turns out that you are the other guy then.

I disagree with you FS they are good at lining their own pockets.

I understand what you're saying, and agree on a certain level. However, that doesn't make it right that there are millions of people in a very wealthy country who don't have access to a physical. It's just wrong, plain and simple. Is this bill the answer? I don't know. I don't think any of us know the answer yet. But I do believe that it's a step in the right direction.

Apple mentioned that she was uninsured for a time. What if, God forbid, she or her child had required hospitalization? How devastating would that have been financially? Or would she have had to go to a county or city hospital, through the ER, and have the public pick up the bill? One surgery, one surprise illness, can wipe out a family financially for YEARS.

We need some mechanism that will guarantee that we are all on a level playing field, with access to regular and preventative doctor visits. It's my sincere hope that this bill will provide that to those who need it.

And, by the way, do you think that the people who will be served by this bill the working poor who are desperately trying to keep their families afloat, or are they blood-sucking leeches, sucking on the public teat?

So despite the GOP claiming they were shut out of the creation of the the health care bill, Republican Senator Grassley is now trying to take credit for sections of the bill he claims he wrote.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...is.php?ref=fpa

RR,

When I went to open the link it said "can't be found."

Anyway, isn't he the guy that started the "kill granny" death panel myth? What an a-hole.


TIS

Pretty devastating. Which is why, as I said, one hopes for the best during such an interim time, rather than pay the hundreds per month to enroll in Cobra (an option that I did have on several occasions). Has anyone answered my question though, about whether under this plan, one can get insurance after losing a job and then switch to employee coverage once they have a NEW job?



That is a very nice goal, however I hate to tell you, that just because someone is insured, that does not mean they are going to go on 'regular and preventative' doctor visits.

Unless of course, under ObamaCare, such visits are REQUIRED.



Just wondering...how much will the 'working poor' that are served by this bill have to pay for their newly acquired insurance, that they will be forced to either buy or be charged a penalty fine...while they are 'saving us money' by not going to the emergency room? Or are those poor people still under the impression that ObamaCare means 'FREE' care?

One other thing...if the President, Vice President, and all the Democrats who voted for this bill think it's so wonderful, then why did they declare themselves exempt from it?

This Utopia you people are living in is a farce. The bad of ObamaCare far outweighs the good.

Apple

I just wish some of you would read the bill instead of posting such drivel.

The Congress will have to pass additional legilsation that will implement the provisions of the bill. That legislation will authorize and describe the role that federal agencies will play in implementation and elaborate on implementation schedules and requirements.

The bill requires that everyone be covered by a health insurance policy. How one accomplishes that is left to the individual. For those who can't afford coverage, there will be state-based insurance exchanges that will offer discounted and subsidized coverage.

Regardless of an insured person's adherence to a preventive health care schedule, those without insurance cannot exercise such adherence.

Ever got wrecked by someone without insurance?

Anyway I don't get these locals without insurance who get taxpayers to pay for their bills bitching at the HCR.

This plan, as written will only work if some version of a public option or a non-profit collective option gets put in at a later date. Like Social Security this bill is a start and nothing more. I do not believe it will be repealed, but there is IMHO a decent possiblity that this Supreme Court, if it ever gets its hands on it, will declare the mandated insurance
unconstitutional by a 5-4 Vote.

Again, a big surprise to those (and there are probably many) who were under the impression that Healthcare Reform meant FREE healthcare (which it still will be, for many).



Hello, taxpayer!!! Enjoy all the money you 'save' as a result of ObamaCare.

F**K those poor people! They want check-ups and vaccines for their kids?! How self-absorbed can they be? What's next? Free strep cultures?

Let them eat cake!

Free, free, FREE!!!!!!

That's how those poor people have always gotten their medical care, and that's how they will ALWAYS get it. Because if they are THAT poor, they will not be able to afford coverage, mandated or not.

Back to where we started. Am I saving money yet?

You will be, probably halfway through Obama's second term. And BTW the hope and change thing is working pretty well, or as Biden would say "pretty f****** well!"

I dare you! I double dare you! I double-dog dare you!!!
President Dares Opposition

Anyone noticed that Apple has totally ignored my postings?

I feel better now.

Apple does have a life other than the BB.