It is what it is. It's far from perfect, but more than any other President was able to pull off.

I agree!

Btw, I read somewhere on-line that it is Nancy Pelosi's 70th birthday as well. I'm sure we'll get some hilarious comments about that, but I am surprised she is that old, in spite of how plastic she looks.

TIS

70? I had no idea she was that old.

I'd say she looks 70. No more, no less, so she looks her age. But I agree with Tis, she looks "plastic."

Ha Ha! What an asshole Biden is. He gets caught dropping the F Bomb at a historic Bill signing today:

Quote: “This is a big f---ing deal” to his boss.

He really shouldn't be allowed to speak. Ever.

I can't believe it....oh wait, I can beieve it. Was there an open Mike?
Reminds me of the time Bush and Cheney called Adam Clymer a "major asshole."

On St. Patrick's day Biden mentioned an older lady.. I think the mother of the Irish ambassador, and said "God rest her soul." Problem is she's still living.

How did I miss that?!

Kind of off topic but mentioning Biden's foul mouth reminds me of this story.

I read that someone who recently wrote a book about the current administration (sorry, I can't remember but read it last week on-line.
Anyway, apparently Rham Emmanuel has a real reputation for dropping f-bombs and really having a foul mouth.

I may be a little off but I'll relay it as I remember it. One of Rham's aids/worker came in his office to tell him something. Evidently, for whatever reason, this guy was not getting to the point. Rham tells him, "Well take the God damn tampon out and say what's on your mind." Holy crap!!!!! Did anyone else read that?

TIS

I have lots of thoughts about Healthcare Reform, some good some bad...but will let the rest of argue amongst yourselves (and nobody go & get your feelings hurt, you KNOW who and what you are dealing with).

However, gotta say again that selfishly, I find it too, TOO hilarious that somewhere, the Clintons have gotta be just pissed as hell, for not only did Barack Obama pull the 2008 nomination from under Hillary's nose, then got her to work for him...now, he also OWNS the healthcare reform they tried and failed to get accomplished.

All this from a guy who, (in Bill Clinton's words)...would've been serving them coffee a few years ago.

Apple

I have to admit, Apple, as different as our political views may be, I agree with this statement a million percent. I never considered myself a Clinton Democrat, even though I voted for Bill for one of his two terms. I always found their sense of entitlement absolutely revolting. Obama's ability to usurp Hillary was one of the main reasons I became a backer of his early on. I still don't know what I would have done if he chose Hillary as a running mate. I'm just grateful that we weren't put in that position.

New York State is fast becoming one of the worst states to be a business owner in. And many workers will say the same thing, and to think about it... I think you hear that from all home owners in general.
Then you have every level cutting back, putting more pressure on the level below it. Feds cut back, to the state. the state cuts back on the county and the county cuts back on the city and townships. Each looking to fill a hole in a budget.And who is expected to fill those holes. All of us.

Ask Obama where it comes from and he says it will not come from the avg joe. NO, NO we are going to get it from the rich, the big corps or folks that are making more then you he tells the Avg. Joe. Or we are going to get it by saving on other things.

Yes like adding new fees, adding higher amounts on old fees, cutting back on the help that Business use to get. Making your limits higher before you get credits or limits lower so you have to pay quicker.

Like today, lets give $250 dollars to the people we just screw by not giving them a cost of living raise these next two years...then when they bitch we will buy them off with the $250 and look like we are doing them special thing.

Like Patterson...lets take away the 3% pay raise the workers were contracted to get because we are in poor shape. People feel like govt workers are overpaid anyway so it will not make us look bad.The general public all know that govt worker are over paid and under worked.- hahahha

He forgets to tell you that the workers have worked the last three years with no pay increases and they get 3% over those three years on the last year before the new contract comes up for signing..so they can say we just gave you 3% so you don't need anything. Have this happen to you for a few contract cycles and you will find that you are losing ground each and every year you are there. Cost go up every year and you get crapped on. Your lucky to have a job they say, so shut up.

Gas alone had gone up how much and what about everything from cable to your phone bill. Has anything stayed the same except your pay?
Well, the kicker is that he wants to withhold your refund checks, which is your money that you overpaid for the state to use...and don't get us started on this soda tax.


The hardest thing to explain is that most people can not tell the truth from the Fiction anymore! They don't understand most things and they can not trust the people who hold public office or the groupds that they belong to.

We do not agree on much politically, but you are spot on when you say that especially Bill has got to be doing a slow burn over all of this. I remember the "coffee" comment Bill made to Kennedy, which I understand did not sit well with Ted, but what is also worthy to note is that during the primary Obama made it clear that he thought FDR, LBJ and Ronald Reagan to have been the most "transformtional" presidents in the modern era. Clinton was really steamed about that one too.

One thing for sure politics and politicians bring out the worst in people. Myself included.



Yes I do and hopefully we can still be friends.

Michigan is one of a number of states which are actually suing the Federal government over the new Health Care law. In addition an Ann Arbor legal center (it's relatively conservative- I think Tom Monaghan helped set it up) is suing the Federal government over the individual mandate.

Two things come to mind
a) Can states actually sue the Federal government. Do they have standing to do so? Federal law is supreme, yes?

b) Given that the individual mandate doesn't go into effect until 2013-2014 , I think, can someone actually sue before the objectionable part of the law kicks in? Again, would someone really have standing?

I would expect both of these suits to be dismissed... Mike Cox joins lawsuit

There's plenty of precedent for suits by states and other governemental entities against the federal government. Printz v. US (regarding gun purchase background checks) comes to mind. Federal law may intrude on federalism as a principle of the Constitution. Since any objectionable part of the law is still part of the law, yes, it can be the basis for a suit although it would probably be ruled separable from the rest of the law.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but everyone as a whole...

Politics and religion... why do people get so bent out of shape? This is why I mostly stay the hell out of this thread.

Please stop with the personal attacks everyone. We all know what the rules are to keep things civil here, right? Thank you.

for some reason when you have health care or abortion in the topic you have a fight going. but, yea everybody needs to be kind with what people are saying...or listen at least.

anyway though we do have to remember that social security, and Medicare were big discussions back then...and now they have help thousands. the only problem i do have with this is how are the poor going to pay for this? will they be fined if they can't pay for it like what mitt romney did in Massachusetts?

Geoff

What IS unfortunate is that there are those who don't ever use bad language BUT can be rude,arrogant and treat others with no respect whatsoever, while keeping a high & mighty tone, and yet NEVER get reprimanded let alone banned. You might want to emphasize to everyone that respect is also a board rule no?


TIS

That's true and should be implied, TIS. Not attacking people personally and being respectful of their opinions regardless of how you may feel about it is what keeps things civil. I don't see much of it because I try to stay far, far away from certain discussions (I made the mistake of popping my head in here the other night to post a 4-word sentence rather than keep it to myself. I'm not even a strict conservative and got into trouble ).

Some people like to argue about a topic they believe in until they're blue in the face and that's fine. Yet some people like to think that they know everything about everything, talk down to people they feel are "wrong", and that just creates trouble. There is no "right" and "wrong" -- only opinions. And everyone has them. We need to remember that, and be respectful towards each other. It's easier for some than others, of course.

I haven't read the entire law but there are subsidies for people making 100-400% of federal poverty level. For a family of four that would mean a household income of roughly between 22K~88K.
Summary of Law

Exactly. Why ask questions on this Board about the bill's provisions or related matters the answers to which are are contained in summaries of the bill on the web. You also have posters who, based on their impressions of the bill rather than their actual knowledge of it, who post such emotion-laden opinions.

Yes, there are several of those, and they know who they are, they don't deny it, and they accept what comes back at them in return. From moderators as well as others.

What was unfortunate in this particular thread was the tone and disrespectful attitude used toward one of the nicest and sweetest members this Board has ever had, and ever will have.

I believe that's why the usually quiet Geoff spoke up, and I'm glad he did.

Anyway, enough of that. Good points on ObamaCare, olivant. Which is why although I don't like the underhanded way in which it was finally passed, I would like to wait & see what the Senate does with it and how it affects the mid-term elections.

Incidentally, I have no sympathy for all the weanies who voted for Obama and now seem so disillusioned at what he has done so far. Like the President said, "This is what CHANGE looks like."

Apple/Pot

What are you talking about?

Now as for the whining part, if my fellow Nebraskans remember Nelsons treason, I won't have to worry about it as he'll lose in a landslide

I read the summary that Lilo linked to and I have a question that I'm confused about.

Individual Mandate:

In 2014, everyone must purchase health insurance or face a $695 annual fine. There are some exceptions for low-income people.

Do I still have to purchase this insurance in addition to what I already have?

No. The language should be clearer, Mig. You just need to be covered under any plan. If you're not, that's when you'll have to purchase it or risk being fined.

so will i have to have to pay for this along with Medicaid?

One section of this bill no one seems to be discussing anywhere is the provision that says government will be assuming and essentially 'taking control' of ALL college debt and student loans -- be it outstanding or new. I don't know if that will preclude the existence of the private institutions that account for a large of amount of college financing through pell grants and such, but that whole provision reeks of Socialism.

Pretty sure you do.

That seems unfair because should someone lose their job, for whatever reason, would they need to get immediate insurance coverage even before seeking new employment, and supposedly keep it throughout that waiting period (usually 90 days) before benefits kick in at the next job.

Unless of course, the interim mandatory insurance is such that one is locked in for a certain time period, say a year, before one can drop the coverage in favor of something else.

As opposed to now, where some people have gotten Cobra or others - myself included - have opted for no insurance at all between jobs, hoping for the best during those few months.

I suppose these are some of the things that need to be ironed out by the Senate, or even re-structured by future Congresses/Presidents (of which there will be a NEW one in 2013).

I tell you, much as Obama was trashing the insurance companies over this past year, THEY are the ones that are going to clean up when all this kicks in.