You know how the old saying goes SC :

He who yells thief the loudest..........


ollieboy, we've disagreed many times on these boards about many different subjects and topics. There even have been times that we've probably pissed each other off with what we've exchanged through posts to each other.

But I must tell you, saying something like this about another board member, especially someone like Mignon, really takes the cake. I'm going to chalk it off to sheer ignorance on your part instead of malice.

You're way out of line and Mignon deserves a personal APOLOGY TOPIC FROM YOU!!!

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Until then, as far as I am concerned, your opinions and views are meaningless to me on these boards!
[/quote]

Olivant, you were WAY out of line. I disagree greatly with Mignon's political views, and she disagrees with mine. However, to resort to such name-calling, especially name-calling that has zero context and zero relativity, and to do so without cause, is actually beyond out of line. Allow me to join the others who feel that you owe her an apology.

As for what I said earlier, whether some of you like it or not, he IS the President of the United States. OUR President. I don't understand what is supposedly so objectionable that you would refuse your daughter a day of education, Apple. You said that you felt it was intrusive of the President to take your daughter away from her lessons, but it's perfectly fine to have her miss an entire DAY of school to miss his speech?? This makes NO sense.

As for what he says or doesn't say, what is the problem? Are we so polarized in this country that we don't want our children to hear any views except those that we want to spoon-feed them? Are we so terrified that they might learn to think independently of us?? What is the actual problem? Is he going to suggest to our children that they should participate in reckless, immoral and illegal acts? I don't believe so. I think that he might try to teach our children to do well in school, as he obviously did. He was editor of the Law Review, and I doubt that they give that out to underachievers.

You don't agree with his views? Fine. But are you really so very frightened of them that you object to having your children hear them? Are you so afraid of exposing your children to a variety of schools of thought??

I must admit I had thought about that very thing...wouldn't it be ridiculous to have her miss an entire day just to repel this 'address' and the 'lessons' that either precede or follow. Although it looks like I won't have to make that decision, I have to say that it would've been 'yes' on principle. And I doubt I would've been the only parent in the USA to do so.

Why? Because of reasons I've already stated in addition to that my child doesn't need the President of the US tell her what teachers, principals, parents and role models have been telling children for years. The importance of a good education. Yes, other Presidents have delivered the same messages, while personally visiting individual schools/classrooms, not this way.

Yes, Obama IS the President and he is OUR President and I share that with my daughter and do not deny it (unlike many others prominent and otherwise did w/ regard to his predecessor). It's wonderful that he has already inspired so many young people, both before and since taking Office. But he and his administration must be sent a message that he is NOT to infiltrate every aspect of our lives. He needs to get familiar with the Oval Office and start doing his job.

Apple

REALLY????

Well, that makes all the difference!!

Please disregard all my previous posts.

So let me get this straight. These are reasons why children should NOT be exposed to President Obama's "little"speech.

1. He'll preach politics and push his secret agenda
2. He's pushing for the 2012 vote.
3. Children will miss valuable class time
4. He's injecting himself in every aspect of our lives
5. Who needs the President to tell the children what the parents, teachers and principals have told them.

Give me a break. I've been listening to the news, reading stories on this and why some of these people are against this speech and there really is NO valid reason. Or, should I say no reason these people will admit to.

Obama won. Get the over it. Here dry your eyes



Some of these people have their head so far up their collective ass they'll never see the light of day.

Oh, and the reason why Bush's name keeps coming up is because many were such lapdogs that NOBODY could say on single bad thing about him without being called unpatriotic but now i's ok. That's a whole other story.


I read a blog yesterday where the poster kind of summed it up..."No no no to whatever Obama wants...and I won't put air in my tires either, just because Obama said so."

TIS

Projection. Classic case.

I thought to myself, you'd be the first to reply
and you didn't disappoint.




Oh yes, and YOU are a classic case to be sure.

TIS

just wondering with all this politics does anybody hate others on there views?

As kids we used to phrase that as:

"I know you are but what am I...???"

or,

"I'm rubber you're glue whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you...nyaahhh!!"

I can see how thrilled you would be, since it's probably the first post of yours I've responded to directly in months!

If you call replying to ANY post a definition of 'projection'...then I think YOU need to view the President's speech on the importance of higher education!

Oh, so you wouldn't mind if he took time from that Oval Office that you think he's so unfamiliar with to personally visit classrooms? Wouldn't a nationwide address to schools be a more efficient use of time?

And simply because your daughter hears that message from other role models, she doesn't need to hear it again? Isn't it a lesson she can't hear enough?? I think it's one that bears repeating, and one they can't hear enough. Given their constant exposure to rap music, violent video games, other kids who drink and smoke and use drugs, they certainly could use the repetition of life's positive lessons.

They played old video footage yesterday of Bush Sr. and Jr., not to mention Ronald Reagan at separate times addressing classrooms. W's visit included him talking to the students about helping the President. Obama had to take out the portion of his speech which asked students to write how they could help the President.) Oh but wait!!! That's different cause it's W.


TIS

All I can say is we don't know the man personaly. We don't know what is in his heart. We don't know if he has a secret agenda or not. But time will tell.

If he can bring this country back to where it should be economicly etc then I will applaud him. If he doesn't then God help us. As far as Bush goes I didn't like how he ran the country his second term.

But I am sick and tired of people(like my Dad) calling Obama a savior. Jesus is the only savior IMO.

None of us ever know for sure what is in anyone's heart. I think with any President, you have to accept to a degree, or until proven otherwise that they have the best interest of the country in their heart.

Obama has NEVER been given that consideration from day one with many wingnuts, that's a fact. They don't like him, they don't want him as President, and they'll be damned if they'll like and/or approve anything he does, which is why they are protesting this speech. If he said the grass is green, they'd say no it isn't.

Btw, the only people I've heard calling Obama a savior is the Right. I think most know he came in office having to dig us out of a hellhole and I have often said, I doubt it'll be fixed even in one term, let alone with only this President.

TIS

I am sick and tired of how divisive these issues have become. A man at one of these crazy healthcare protests had his finger bitten off! I mean, what have we become? Rabid dogs? This is INSANITY? How have we become such a black/white society (and I don't mean that in terms of race) with no room for grey?? We either have to agree, or we're labeled the enemy? And that goes for both sides, not one over the other.

Got his finger bitten off? Do you have a link?

I don't. They showed it on the news last night. Two men got into a fight, and the one who lost his finger admitted that he threw the first punch, which is how his hand got near the other guy's mouth. He admits that things got out of hand, and he doesn't want to press charges if the guy is found.

Sounds like they were BOTH crazy.

I heard that same story yesterday on the news.I didn't see a video of it though. I did see a lady in a wheelchair however, get booed because she was asking her senator why he didn't want change in healthcare. And, although I did not hear this on the video, the news story went on to say that someobdy shouted out to this woman that "her mother should have aborted her." You're right SB, what have we become???


TIS

Indeed, as he did state in his first interview (with Neil Cavuto on Fox) he threw a punch at a man (and hit)as that man approached him. He threw a 2nd punch that hit the man in the mnouth at which time the man bit his small finger.

You know there haven't been any of these town meetings in my area. If there were, I'd really like to go. But damn, I'd wanna come back in one piece. I'd hate to think I couldn't express my feelings in a diplomatic way (or even otherwise) without getting my ass wooped. Sad sign of the times for sure.


TIS

Those hosted by Mike Burgess in the 26th Texas Congressional District have gone well.

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama's adviser Van Jones has resigned amid controversy over past inflammatory statements, the White House said early Sunday.

Jones, an administration official specializing in environmentally friendly "green jobs" with the White House Council on Environmental Quality was linked to efforts suggesting a government role in the 2001 terror attacks and to derogatory comments about Republicans.

"WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama's adviser Van Jones has resigned amid controversy over past inflammatory statements, the White House said early Sunday."



If only it were always this quick & simple.

Some of y'all in here are funny. First off, there's no way that the Democrats are going to lose the majority in the House. They may lose some seats in the Senate, but they will even keep the majority there. Obama has already done more good in the first 9 months than Bush did in 8 years.

If only we would get healthcare reform done now. It's going to happen. The pundits are just delaying it. Healthcare reform will pass by the end of the year and there better be a public option. Healthcare is not a priviledge, it is a right. A green piece of paper should not determine whether you can get life or non life threatening treatment.

Want to hear an interesting fact I learned in class the other day? My one professor was the victim of a hate crime about 10 or 15 years ago. He has denchers in his mouth and he is getting them replaced in a few months. It is going to cost him over $60,000. He was just in Germany this past summer. Germany has universal healthcare. 89 % of prostitutes in Germany are covered and could get the same procedure done for free that he has to pay upwawards of 60 g's. A professor with a B.A. in political science and an M.A. in international relations cannot get the same coverage as a hooker in Germany.

And as far as Sarah Palin goes, I hope she gets the Republican nod in 2012. That would be an automatic win for Obama. This country is not stupid, especially the young and middle class! We have finally gotten our country back.

Cheers.

Whoa. Slow Down Patrick. House elections are about 13 months away. Any thing can happen between now and then to mitigate election results. The loss of Democrat seats in the House (about 20) is predicated on what we know now only. Democrat losses in the Senate will stil preserve its majority, but without the votes for Cloture on a Filibuster.

Some form of health care reform will probably be enacted, but I seriously doubt that it will aproximate that which is currently describes in House Bill 3200 or any similar proposed legislation. Pundits are delaying it? According to what Congressional procedural rule?

Health care a right? Where in the US Constitution is that cited? Oh, I know. It's a natural law right, right? Can we add to that list? How about a job, a house, a car, an education? Where do we stop?

"A green piece of paper should not determine whether you can get life or non life threatening treatment." It does not determine so. Both federal law and hospital policies address treatment of any emeergency room patient.

"A professor with a B.A. in political science and an M.A. in international relations cannot get the same coverage as a hooker in Germany." Yes a professor can when he/she pays for the level of coverage desired.

By the way, the German health system is not based on a "right" As of 2007, all German citizens are required to obtain health insurance. through the Nation's public insurance option or of a company provider. The entire system is under tremendous financial strain. Public option co-pays are being increased and participants can be require to pay up to 15% of their annual gross income.

Ummm, you are saying a green piece of paper does not determine so, yet you say that my professor can PAY for the coverage he needs. He should not have to pay that ridiculous amount. Insurance company execs are living lavish lifestyles because they make bank off of sick or ailing people. It is unethical and immoral. It always comes down to that green piece of paper, and it quite simply should not. There is a revolution happening in America right now. If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.



Actually, Germany's health coverage is 10.8 % of the GDP, it is over 16 % in the US. And if we do nothing to reform healthcare, it will be over 50 % of our GDP by 2025.

I am all for free markets and principles, however, I have always believed that if problems pursue that we (the public) cannot fix on our own, then it is the government who is responsible to fix the problem. Healthcare is only step 1. The more pundits delay this, the longer it will take to reform energy policy and the grip some of our foes in the Middle East have on us will only continue to grow.

I think most of the people against reform do not realize that each time the uninsured get sick, they go to the ER. Who foots that bill? The taxpayers. Would you rather continue down that path?

Are we back in the 60s? I don't know where to begin Patrick, so I'll begin with the pundits you refer to. Who are they?

ERs are provided by publically funded and privately funded hospitals. Private hospitals absorb the cost of uninsured patients.

"... each time the uninsured get sick, they go to the ER. Who foots that bill? The taxpayers." Isn't that the public option?

The %s of GDP you refer to simply represents the health care component of national goods and services, nothing more.

Insurance companies do not have to sell health insurance. We should be grateful that they do. A company's investors participate in determining compensation levels. When you become an investor, you can do so also.

The pundits I refer to are the people who continue to use fear when speaking about reform. Anyone that acccuses the health bills of having "death panels" or "pulling the plug on Grandma" are the pundits. These so called "death panels" are panels of doctors who MAY (if a person decides he/she wants to) help people write out their wills before they die. Who wouldn't want to write out their will?

Having a public option that is put into law with certain rules and regulations would reduce costs. Right now, there are no rules or regulation. Health insurance companies can charge ANY price that they wish.

I don't, and for the very reason you stated, not because I don't have absolute faith in her ability.

If she were by some miracle the Republican nominee she'd have my vote. But she was treated so miserably by the press in 2008 (and continues to be) that the negatives are literally insurmountable. Especially with her resigning as Gov. earlier this year, I would have to agree she's virtually unelectable.

I hope the Republicans know better when choosing their nominee in 2012. Obama's record, miserable as it already is...will need an incredibly strong opposition. We don't need another Bob Dole/John McCain candidacy.

Apple

Patrick, you make some convincing arguments, but the German comparison is absolutely ludicrous. The minority population in the United States alone is larger than the entire population of Germany. Unfortunately, many minorities in the United States, in spite of living in virtual poverty, insist on having 10 kids that they can't feed or clothe.

Yes, it's a slightly greater challenge providing universal healthcare for a country consisting of your tired, your poor, and your huddled masses yearning to breathe free than it is for a country that's 91% GERMAN .