Originally Posted By: Ludovico
You know, I think you have a much too romanticized view of things.

I honestly think that a Black could've been in the inner circle of the Outfit, not every Mafia family is run the same. I remember reading about an outfit in LA that was makeing a guy recently yeah? And they couldn't find anyone to say the oath and all that right? So they just made their own ritual up. I'll look for it again but nonethless I mean, is it so uncommon? I mean if we are to beleive that the wiseguys are the only ones with any ambition in the underworld why wouldn't they take a page out of some of the gangs out there and start allowing any ethnicity in? I mean the Latin Kings have become a nationwide organization and they were once (or maybe still are in some cases) common street punks.

I mean honestly why does it seem so farfetched? I don't think being made ever meant anything to be honest like Henry hill said "Makeing Money was the only requirment that mattered" I really don't beleive all this crap people tell me about a bunch of extortionists understanding the concepts of "respect" and "honor" considering what they do on a daily basis. Sure, there is MUCH prestige attached to the title I suppose but in the long run I say everybody remembers those notable associates we listed and the big bad dons.

I honestly can't name any "Made Guys" I ever cared about.


Romanticism has nothing to do with it. You honestly think a black could have been in the inner circle of the Outfit? Do you have any examples to support you thinking this? I ask this knowing full well that you don't because there never have been, whether in Chicago or any other Family. Have there been black associates? Absolutely. One of the most famous was Elsworth "Bumpy" Johnson, who was essentially a frontman for the Mafia's numbers operations in Harlem. However, the Mafia has always been a "white" enterprise, and more specifically, a white Italian-male enterprise. Most of the famous non-Italian Mafia associates have been white. As I mentioned, Chicago had Jake "Greasy Thumb" Guzik, Murray "The Camel" Humphreys, Gus Alex, and others. There was Hugh "Apples" MacIntosh, who was a high level associate of the Colombo Family. Joe "The German" Watts, a high level associate of the Gambino Family. Zef Mustafa, also with the Gambinos. As said, in the early days there was guys like Meyer Lansky and Bugsy Siegal. Moe Dalitz also. The Mafia has always worked with other crime groups, from the Irish and Jews in the early years, to the Russians, Cubans, Asians, Albanians, etc. today. And nobody said that the Italians are the only ones with any underworld ambition. But within the Cosa Nostra framework, there is a distinct hierarchy, the clearest line being between those who are made and those who are not. And even more exclusive are the high ranking members who make up the hierarchies of each Family.

As for the initiation ceremony, there have always been variances amongst the Families, though it generally follows a basic pattern of the prospective member being brought before a table on which are layed a gun and knife, their trigger finger being pricked to symbolize the blood oath, the burning saint card to symbolize their soul burning in hell if they betray their oath, etc. The Chicago Outfit didn't start using the traditional blood and fire ceremony until the 1970's. In the past the Patriarca Family has had a unique counting system during the ceremony used to determine which crew the new member would go to. The DeCavalcantes did not use the gun and knife in their ceremonies for a number of years and were forced to go through them again by John Gotti. I'm not sure who you are talking about in LA that was making anyone recently. Nobody has been made in LA recently to my knowledge.

Last edited by JSTony; 09/20/08 02:41 AM.