Maybe he was captured by the American army. Then was sent to New Jersey, as a prisoner of war... and towards the end, he was uh paroled to help with the American uh war effort. and for the last six months worked in a pastry shop.








I too am also interested to know how he was able to do so after being so high up on the list.

"After being so high up on the list"? Why do you think the draft at that point in the Nation's history was referred to as a lottery? In a lottery, selections are based on on those numbers generated by random number table.

And LLC, I echo DC's exhortation, but I'll add my own. Your vituperation against things you don't understand is your desperate need to reduce everything to simplicity, to avoid facing and having to deal with the variables and nuances that are characteristic of people and institutions, dilemmas and choices. Complexity is something that you assiduously avoid. You seek the false comfort of sophistry that gives you shelter against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that sometimes accompany human existence.

Today Vietnam is well on its way to being an entrepreneurial and capitalistic country that offers economic, education, and in time, political choices to the Vietnamese, and with which the US is its largest trading partner. Without the War, none of this would have taken place. Vietnam would have become an entrenched member of the Communist bloc, would have continued its encroachments into Laos (joining forces with the Communist Pathet Lao)and into Cambodia (which it did resulting in the reign of Pol Pot), and threatened such in Thailand and Burma (now called Myanamar).

As a further result of the War, both China and the Soviet Union realized that the US would continue its efforts to contain the spread of Communism. Thus, the Soviet Union is gone and both it and China are continuing down the entrepreneurial road while China's Communism is but a shell of what it was under Mao.

You might try picking up a weapon and standing a post for something!

Did you eat some alphabet spaghetti?

But I find this ironic:



The "sophistry" bit, too. I mean, isn't this board uber-Catholic?

To the Mods: Can my name be green, too? I've become acquainted with empty fictions.

(If it helps during the audition, I can learn some Godfather quotes to drop at will. Italicised, of course (of course - it's a vital box to check).)

Which is ironic, as the Vietnam war avoided the complexity associated with human existence by simply assigning everyone a number before shipping them out like cattle.

However, I must say I enjoy how you're free to make personal jabs without a slap on the wrists, unlike myself, because I am not a member of the right-winged, self-motivated "GAWD BLESS AMERIKA AND CONDEMN DISRESPEKT" club that basically provides the same duties for this website that unsophisticated, sexually repressed jocks do for public high schools across America.

First of all not everyone was assigned a number stupid. Age, gender, handicapped, and prior military service exemptions (among others) were still retained. And not everyone who was assigned a number was inducted. Many of those who were assigned ended up assigned to billets other than Vietnam. But all were trained to be effective in whatever theater they served.

You are not a member of anything; you apparently stand for nothing; you apparently have fought for nothing. You simply exercise your mouth, or, on this Board, your fingers.

Try taking up a weapon and standing a post for something that requires more than just getting out of bed in the morning.

You may be able to do all that, but in all honesty do you think you are capable of starting threads with the title in all caps?

Do you know the streets of New York?

Do you know where you get the best Pizza in town?

Actually, no it's not. It's a republic. In a democracy, the people would get to vote on every issue. In a republic, the majority elects a representative that they feel will express their views and vote on issues the way that they would. Therefore, you are incorrect, although it's a common error.

As for the flag, it's a symbol. It's a symbol of the republic for which it stands. You don't pledge allegiance to the FLAG, you pledge your loyalty to what it represents. While I feel that blind allegiance to anyone or anything is just plain wrong, I find it odd that there are those here who proclaim to worship free speech, but who prefer to mock anyone who disagrees with THEM. If you believe in freedoms, they must be for ALL, or you are simply a hypocrite.

LLC, I know that you seem to be a fan of the various concepts of communism, which surprises me. You also have expressed admiration for individuality. Communism is for the collective. Could you explain your views further? I'd be interested in hearing them.

Haha, I saw svsg had posted in this thread, but when I clicked on it, it took me to the first page. I read all of olivant's post thinking it was a clever parody by svsg.

But no, it turns out to be olivant all along; the Eternal Bag of Bullshit, with his thirst for generalisations and young, willing men on whom he can practice his strange, homosexual tendencies.

(We know; we all know.)

Olivant's post just made my IQ drop, so I'm not going to bother responding. I just wish I had learned sooner that your life isn't worth living until you've advocated violence.



Hence my side-commenting that it is "supposed to be." The U.S. was, I think in everyone's mind, originally intended as a Democracy, or something like it, but I don't think it really came into fruition. But on the other hand, I've never viewed the country as a straight Republic either. I think we maintained a decent balance between the two for a while, but if you'd note the voting trends in the bulk of our presidential elections, it is no surprise we've begun leaning in the direction of a more concentrated Republic... But still, I don't think this country has every been more than a mix of political philosophy, which is ultimately great, but leads to some infuriation here and there.



I am aware of the position of the flag in society, and I'm not quite sure if you just misread my comments for being completely literal, or what... But what I'm getting at is, I think nationalism is a terrible thing. Absolutely horrible. Anything that a certain group of people can identify with is eventually going to lead to sectionalism. It's for this reason that I don't take pride in my ethnicity, or my nationality, or the religion I was born into, and so on. Not that I am ashamed of them, but I'd rather just think of us all as people, and not American, or Canadian, or Italian, or Irish, or Spanish, and so on. When you create sectionalism in regards to something that is an unchangeable characteristic of who you are (IE race, nationality, etc), you're just asking for trouble. The only think nationalism has ever provided mankind with is war, and I think we can all agree (excluding Olivant) that war is a pretty shitty thing.



Sure, I'm more than happy to share them. Basically, I endorse communism as Marx and Engels originally envisioned it. In other words, I am a fan of the communist philosophy, but not so much the communist party. I think that communism could have been a great, great thing... I mean, I am the son of a middle class family, so I am naturally all for economic equality, the elimination of social classes, and so forth. But, human nature makes it impossible for communism to work so long as there is a government, of any sort. Government officials, be they dictators, or elected officials who follow a system of checks and balances, will always become instantaneous members of an upper class. This means the only way communism could ever work would involve the achievement of anarchy, another idea I am rather fond of.

Now, as far as individuality is concerned, I think this all indirectly stems back to the whole "human nature" thing. I think the collective characteristics of communism were sort of a result of all the imposed dictatorships, which eventually lead to censorship and all sorts of nonsense... It wasn't communism that cut off the individual, but the communists. However, I think if capitalism hadn't been so frightened of the idea of a central economy, and the Western world hadn't given Russia the cold shoulder, just maybe the state of things in Europe wouldn't have gotten as out of control as they did.

Just remember, even Marx had come to resent what communism had become by the time he was on his deathbed.

Anyways, my thoughts are extremely scattered right now, so if you have any more questions, or just plain curiosity regarding my beliefs, feel free to ask.

Interesting. Although this is getting completely off-topic (and my apologies to PB for hijacking his thread), I find the issues of government and/or governing philosophies, and what people think of them, fascinating.

I understand what you say about not wanting to lump groups together. However, I think that you can have a balance of both. I'm proud of my country, but I'm not blind about its faults. I have faith, but I despise many things about organized religion. I am proud of my heritage, but that doesn't mean that I look down on others.

I loathe the elimination of social classes. People are NOT equal. There are doers and there are those that would prefer to suck the life out of the doers. There are the thinkers and creators, and those incapable of an original idea if it plopped onto the tops over their heads. There are achievers, and there are those that would prefer to leech off of the achievements of others. I think that the basic fault of communism is that by declaring that all should be shared and equal denies the best its right to the top. Do that often enough, and you will have no best left.

Look at any job where the employees can't be fired, perhaps civil servants or teachers with tenure. Since they're not judged by merit, many of them don't care about success (I said many, not all). They just show up, put in their time, and go home. How does that contribute to society?

LLC, do you have any idea of what you are talking about? People have fought hard to give you this freedom that you are enjoying today and you are shitting on them. Communism and other similar philosophies have clearly proven to be oppressive and dangerous to mankind and wars are an inevitable means to safeguard the rights and freedoms of people. Moreover you are forgetting the moral aspect of the wars. There is nothing wrong in fighting EVIL. God bless the soldiers.

You're kidding, right?? What does a person's incentive have to do with how they contribute to society?? A letter carrier who is not interested in furthering his career but simply does his job is still providing a service.

Just a tad cynical, no?

One of my major faults with capitalism is that competition often blinds us of what's really important. I think people should be less concerned with contributing to society, and more concerned with pursuing whatever makes them happy, be it art or business. I think if everyone were to fill a job they genuinely loved, their contributions to society would be sincere.

And aside from the notion of equality, I am in full support of government intervention in the affairs of big business... Corporations make more money than they should know what to do with, and all that does is lead to greed, which can eventually lead to poor ethics and business practice. Businesses should have the moral responsibility of keeping the interest of the consumer in mind as well as the equally important responsibility of maintaining ethics.

If I could create an ideal world, I would eliminate all currencies. If we had never created currency in the first place, we wouldn't have to worry about the issues you brought up. People would have to focus on utilizing their skills to provide others with what they need, and in return, others would have to utilize their skills to do the same.

I think what it all comes down to is, I never got competition. I've never understood or enjoyed sports for the same reason. I just don't get it. Sure, "survival of the fittest" will always exist, but from an evolutionary standpoint, isn't life about procreation and prolonging the existence of your own species? So, by this motive, I would have to consider he who keeps in mind the interest of his species, as a whole, the fittest.

svsg made me pee a little, SC made me nod in total agreement.

Sorry, SC. I WAS serious. Have you stood on line at the post office or the DMV lately? Or tried to get something done at a municipal office? Although your taxes pay for that service, they certainly don't view you as the customer, but more of an inconvenience. I certainly don't believe that ALL of them act that way. I'm sure that there are many such employees that are dedicated and hard-working. But a complete and total lack of motivation can lead to a lackadaisical attitude.

And what about the corporation? What about the jobs that they supply? The service or product? The taxes they pay, and for very few services. They pay school and town taxes, but they don't send children to school or get garbage pickup. If they make a profit, they're entitled to it. Should they conduct business in a moral and ethical way? Yes, of course.

I think you DO (believe all civil servants act THAT way). Personally, I usually get good service at my local post office and DMV (but hated going to the DMV when I lived in Brooklyn). I don't see that there would be any difference in a service like those if the merit system was in place.

No, I really don't. However, I worked in local government long enough to know that there are plenty that do. I've stood outside my daughters' classrooms and almost been run over by the teachers on their way out on parent/teacher night when the 9:00 bell rang, no matter that there were 4 or 5 parents still on line that hadn't gotten their turns.

If I treated clients that way, I wouldn't have a job for long, much less get pre-negotiated raises every year.

Sure you do.

You're just PMSing and can't see it right now.

MUST you alert the ENTIRE board to my monthly schedule??

Its my civic duty.

And what's wrong with PMSing?

It should be kept at home.

Forewarned is forearmed? Or something to that effect?

Sometimes it makes it's way out of the home. Just can't be helped.

No. But I'll bet that between he and I, we can tell you the streets of New York, where to get the best pizza, or to stay in GF mode, the best veal in the city! And for some, perhaps the best Falafel, Fish and Chips, curried goat or Golguppa!!! Remember, "whether it is coffee or pizza or pasta or dog meat or pig crap, the best is available obviously in Newyork."

And I promise that we won't forget to wear our "bowling shirts and suit pants, drink red wine, grease our hair (for those who still have some left), use Itlaian slang words, talk about respect and order stuffed shells too!!!!!!!"

You running for office DC?

Well, as long as it will be a normal night.

Mocking people is funny.

" -- but I thought that -- that when it was your time -- that -- that you would be the one to hold the strings. Senator - Corleone. Governor - Corleone, or something...


Another pezzonovante..."

Oh Yeah? Shut up and go eat your Gravlax and Falukorv. See, I am so clever! Oh, just in case,