2 registered members (Liggio, Lana),
452
guests, and 6
spiders. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums21
Topics42,433
Posts1,060,890
Members10,349
|
Most Online992 6 hours ago
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: Lilo]
#482726
04/05/08 09:52 PM
04/05/08 09:52 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,022 Texas
olivant
|
![](/ubb/5stars10k.gif)
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,022
Texas
|
Well, I'm not going to waste my time to retort to all of your statements most of which are just emotional sophistry based on anecdotal information. You might also consider that DT accused America of racism.
The poll tax was only applied in the south and then only as of the early 1900s. In Texas, it was initiated in 1906. The White Primary in Texas was intitaed in 1923 and all white primaries anywhere were declared unconsitutional in 1944.
Cite your historical evidence for widespread racial discrimination in public facilities outside of the south.
Again, without the compromises embodied in the US Constitution there would not be a US Constitution and, thus, no US, and thus, no end to slavery.
The 14th amendment only requires that governmental processes that seek to deprive a citizern of life, liberty, or property follow due process of law. Its equal protection clause only requires that citizens have equal access to and application of the law. It is moot regarding the content of those processes or those laws. Again, and consistent with the amendment's legislative history, the Supreme Court ruled that the applicable Louisiana law was not violative of that amendment's provisions.
Try taking a constitutional law course and and read a book or two about US History. You might also want to read James Madison's or Rufus King's notes taken at the Constitutional Convention. Also, learn the difference between due process arguments and substantive due process arguments in the meantime. Until then, you might want to exercise the better part of valor and think before you write.
Last edited by olivant; 04/05/08 09:53 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: olivant]
#482780
04/06/08 08:16 AM
04/06/08 08:16 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325 MI
Lilo
|
![](/ubb/5stars.gif)
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
|
Well, I'm not going to waste my time to retort to all of your statements most of which are just emotional sophistry based on anecdotal information. You might also consider that DT accused America of racism.
The poll tax was only applied in the south and then only as of the early 1900s. In Texas, it was initiated in 1906. The White Primary in Texas was intitaed in 1923 and all white primaries anywhere were declared unconsitutional in 1944.
Cite your historical evidence for widespread racial discrimination in public facilities outside of the south.
Again, without the compromises embodied in the US Constitution there would not be a US Constitution and, thus, no US, and thus, no end to slavery.
The 14th amendment only requires that governmental processes that seek to deprive a citizern of life, liberty, or property follow due process of law. Its equal protection clause only requires that citizens have equal access to and application of the law. It is moot regarding the content of those processes or those laws. Again, and consistent with the amendment's legislative history, the Supreme Court ruled that the applicable Louisiana law was not violative of that amendment's provisions.
Try taking a constitutional law course and and read a book or two about US History. You might also want to read James Madison's or Rufus King's notes taken at the Constitutional Convention. Also, learn the difference between due process arguments and substantive due process arguments in the meantime. Until then, you might want to exercise the better part of valor and think before you write. Of course you aren't going to respond to my points because the points are based in facts, not warmed over rhetoric that reads like it was borrowed from Thomas Sowell. This could be pointless because in an excellent post DT already provided you chapter and verse history of America's racism. If you don't think any of that was racist, then NO one can make you believe otherwise. I expect that you will likely reject these as well but try reading some of the books listed here which discuss sundown towns and discrimination in public accommodations outside of the South. http://www.wm.edu/news/?id=5438http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/293.htmlhttp://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2001/Feb-26-Mon-2001/news/15512657.htmlhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/20/AR2005102001715.htmlGreat Britain was also guilty of many crimes but it managed to end slavery in its possessions thirty years before the United States did so. So slavery could have been ended without the US Constitution as written. As Thurgood Marshall wrote the Constitution was "flawed from the start". The 14th Amendment provided equal protection under the law to all citizens. It would not have been necessary of course if some citizens hadn't been hell bent on denying this to other citizens. The ruling in Plessy v. Ferguson was a perversion of the 14th Amendment. From where I stand, it is you, not I who need to do quite a bit of reading on American history and law. Perhaps you might start with almost anything by Derrick Bell, Lerone Bennett, Leon Higginbotham or W.E.B DuBois. Or maybe you can just explain to me why "separate but equal" should still be the law of the land. Make sure you think about this before responding..
"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Winter is Coming
Now this is the Law of the Jungleāas old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: Sicilian Babe]
#482968
04/07/08 01:28 PM
04/07/08 01:28 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907 Born on the Bayou
Saladbar
Underboss
|
Underboss![](/ubb/2stars.gif)
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907
Born on the Bayou
|
DT, you give some excellent examples. And I agree that the USA has a racist history.
HOWEVER, hate-mongering is hate-mongering, I don't care WHO says it, be it Pat Robertson, Hagee, Reverend Wright, or Bozo the Clown. And if a candidate aligns him- or herself as closely with such a person as Obama has aligned himself with Reverend Wright, then chances are they will be painted with the same brush. But you are still talking about Obama and his relationship with Wright. And I don't see the other candidates being painted with the same brush. I just want one answer: Are the statements of white evangelical ministers subjected to the same standards of judgment as those being applied to Wright's statements? Wright goes silly and off on tangents about the glaring unfairness and cruelty that marks so much of American history. Right-Wing White Evangelical preachers blame 9/11 and Katrina on the retribution of God against our social decadence. I listened to Wright and think "the man is crazy but has some points." I listen to Hagee, and I think "this guy is just crazy." Yet, thanks to the broken nature of our political discourse, we are all mostly just talking about Wright.
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it"
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: Sicilian Babe]
#483073
04/07/08 10:28 PM
04/07/08 10:28 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145 East Tennessee
ronnierocketAGO
|
![](/ubb/5stars10k.gif)
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
|
Look, I know that Obama is not responsible for what other people say. However, if the pastor of my church, which is a Roman Catholic church, started preaching that the Church did the right thing by hushing up the Pedophile Priests, and that it was perfectly OK for the priests to do what they did, and that more priests should have sex with young children, I would find a statement like that so against my personal beliefs that I would demand his resignation. Sorry, but I don't believe you. At most, you probably would have quietly told others about how you thought that was wrong, but openly stand up and publicly demand such a thing? If my parish felt that it was okay for him to stay, I would leave and go to a different church. And that would be it. Obama, who says that he despises the sentiment of these statements, would make the leap to despising the man who said them. However, he remained fairly close with him and is still a member of his church (and please correct me if I'm wrong). How can you expect anyone who spews such venom to act as your spiritual and moral guide, which is what a pastor is supposed to do. I don't know, how can a President be competent with policy if he believes in a faith that Jews and all other non-believers of Christ will be destroyed at the End Times...like Bushie and his Evangelical pals? Does Bushie himself want the Jews destroyed for not following Jesus? Of course not. But his ministers? I have found Obama to be incredibly bright, charismatic, quick on his feet, and wonderfully refreshing. This whole thing does bother me, though. Maybe its because I'm from the Bible Belt, and the crazy shit that Wright said....lets just say I've heard even nuttier shit* being spouted from the pulpit over the years. Trust me Babe, you Catholics have nothing on our wonderful creativity. *=(1)"Each time you buy a ticket in the state lottery, your soul dies one scratch at a time." (2)"Homosexuality is a sinful disease from up North and out West." (3) "I don't believe in the Theory of Evolution." (4) "I will only watch THE GODFATHER when Clean Flicks makes their own edit of it, so my family can watch it."
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: Sicilian Babe]
#483074
04/07/08 10:29 PM
04/07/08 10:29 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145 East Tennessee
ronnierocketAGO
|
![](/ubb/5stars10k.gif)
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
|
I just want one answer: Are the statements of white evangelical ministers subjected to the same standards of judgment as those being applied to Wright's statements?
They certainly should be. If they're not, there's no valid reason for it. Should be, but they aren't. Then again Babe, does the idea of Bill Clinton using the religion* card back in 1992 offend you more or less than this whole Obama deal? *=I mean Bubba, give us a fucking a break.
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: LBG]
#483109
04/08/08 01:01 PM
04/08/08 01:01 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536 West Chester, PA
Patrick
|
![](/ubb/5stars.gif)
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,536
West Chester, PA
|
Hey guys, check out this site. They were breaking down the state of North Carolina today on CNN and showing all the cuts that have been made to state funded programs, such as programs for health care, anti-poverty programs, and even transit programs. Just go here and click on your state or city. It's pretty sad that so much of our money is being spent on this war. They also show the cost of the war for your state, compared to the tax cuts for the richest 10 percent. For PA, the war has cost $139 billion. The tax cuts for the richest 10 percent was $116.6 billion. How fucked up is that? http://www.nationalpriorities.org/taxday2008
"After every dark night, there's a bright day right after that. No matter how hard it gets, stick your chest out, keep your head up, and handle it." -Tupac Shakur
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: ronnierocketAGO]
#483111
04/08/08 01:14 PM
04/08/08 01:14 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907 Born on the Bayou
Saladbar
Underboss
|
Underboss![](/ubb/2stars.gif)
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907
Born on the Bayou
|
I just want one answer: Are the statements of white evangelical ministers subjected to the same standards of judgment as those being applied to Wright's statements?
They certainly should be. If they're not, there's no valid reason for it. Should be, but they aren't. These sermons weren't played on automatic loop. Only a few screamed that McCain separate himself as much from Hagee as they asked Obama to from Wright: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qNi7tPanUA(Catholics especially should be pissed)
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it"
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: Partagas]
#483132
04/08/08 05:33 PM
04/08/08 05:33 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300 New York
Sicilian Babe
|
![](/ubb/5stars10k.gif)
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 17,300
New York
|
Pat, you make valid points about the cost of the war. However, if it wasn't for the wealthy, this economy would really be in the tank (if it's not already). The working class can barely pay for essentials. Think of the arts, the restaurants, the theaters, the museums, that would be forced to close if it wasn't for the patronage of the wealthy.
And let me tell you, what was once wealthy, no longer is. It used to be that $100,000 annual salary made you rich. Where I live, you can barely make ends meet if you make that. Especially if you are raising children, who will require $30,000 per year for college.
Don't knock the rich. If it wasn't for them, lots of us would be unemployed and homeless.
President Emeritus of the Neal Pulcawer Fan Club
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: Sicilian Babe]
#483141
04/08/08 07:33 PM
04/08/08 07:33 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,022 Texas
olivant
|
![](/ubb/5stars10k.gif)
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,022
Texas
|
Pat, you make valid points about the cost of the war. However, if it wasn't for the wealthy, this economy would really be in the tank (if it's not already). The working class can barely pay for essentials. Think of the arts, the restaurants, the theaters, the museums, that would be forced to close if it wasn't for the patronage of the wealthy.
And let me tell you, what was once wealthy, no longer is. It used to be that $100,000 annual salary made you rich. Where I live, you can barely make ends meet if you make that. Especially if you are raising children, who will require $30,000 per year for college.
Don't knock the rich. If it wasn't for them, lots of us would be unemployed and homeless. That's one of the most intelligent posts ever on this Board. From where do people think investment capital comes? Wthout investment capital there is no R&D, there are no ventures, there is no expansion of production capacity, there is no added value. Ours is a capitalist society. Within it, people and companies have goods and services to sell at the price they demand. It's simple.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: Partagas]
#483149
04/08/08 08:26 PM
04/08/08 08:26 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145 East Tennessee
ronnierocketAGO
|
![](/ubb/5stars10k.gif)
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
|
Hey guys, check out this site. They were breaking down the state of North Carolina today on CNN and showing all the cuts that have been made to state funded programs, such as programs for health care, anti-poverty programs, and even transit programs. Just go here and click on your state or city. It's pretty sad that so much of our money is being spent on this war. They also show the cost of the war for your state, compared to the tax cuts for the richest 10 percent. For PA, the war has cost $139 billion. The tax cuts for the richest 10 percent was $116.6 billion. How fucked up is that? http://www.nationalpriorities.org/taxday2008 Fucked up? if you want to squeeze more tax from the rich, cut their tax rates. As JFK said it's "the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run". But didn't the government make the Tax Cuts from early in Bush's term permanent?
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: Saladbar]
#483150
04/08/08 08:28 PM
04/08/08 08:28 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145 East Tennessee
ronnierocketAGO
|
![](/ubb/5stars10k.gif)
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
|
I just want one answer: Are the statements of white evangelical ministers subjected to the same standards of judgment as those being applied to Wright's statements?
They certainly should be. If they're not, there's no valid reason for it. Should be, but they aren't. These sermons weren't played on automatic loop. Only a few screamed that McCain separate himself as much from Hagee as they asked Obama to from Wright: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qNi7tPanUA(Catholics especially should be pissed) Damn, why am I not surprised?
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: Sicilian Babe]
#483193
04/09/08 09:16 AM
04/09/08 09:16 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762 Anytown, USA
goombah
|
![](/ubb/5stars.gif)
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
|
And let me tell you, what was once wealthy, no longer is. It used to be that $100,000 annual salary made you rich. Where I live, you can barely make ends meet if you make that. Especially if you are raising children, who will require $30,000 per year for college.
Isn't this reality pathetic? You hit the nail on the head, SB. For a family of four, $25,000 per person should be more than sufficient. The increasing tax rates over the past 20 years, the steady inflation, the high cost of fuel, and the always escalating cost of educating our children have seriously derailed many working parents' ability to survive beyond paycheck to paycheck. I received my first raise of a measley 2.5% last year, which was the first pay increase since 2004. Thankfully, my wife makes good money as an attorney, so we are comfortable. But if I were the main breadwinner, a 2.5% raise does not cover the cost of increased fuel, parking rates, and food costs that have skyrocketed since 2005's aftermath of Hurricanes Katrina & Rita. I would say the new standard of "wealthy" that SB is referring would be at least $125,000. But in bigger cities like NY, LA, or Chicago, the much higher cost of living would probably only classify such a salary as "upper middle class."
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: goombah]
#483224
04/09/08 01:28 PM
04/09/08 01:28 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 295 Cincinnati, Oh
Don Alessandrio
Capo
|
Capo
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 295
Cincinnati, Oh
|
And let me tell you, what was once wealthy, no longer is. It used to be that $100,000 annual salary made you rich. Where I live, you can barely make ends meet if you make that. Especially if you are raising children, who will require $30,000 per year for college.
Isn't this reality pathetic? You hit the nail on the head, SB. For a family of four, $25,000 per person should be more than sufficient. The increasing tax rates over the past 20 years, the steady inflation, the high cost of fuel, and the always escalating cost of educating our children have seriously derailed many working parents' ability to survive beyond paycheck to paycheck. I received my first raise of a measley 2.5% last year, which was the first pay increase since 2004. Thankfully, my wife makes good money as an attorney, so we are comfortable. But if I were the main breadwinner, a 2.5% raise does not cover the cost of increased fuel, parking rates, and food costs that have skyrocketed since 2005's aftermath of Hurricanes Katrina & Rita. I would say the new standard of "wealthy" that SB is referring would be at least $125,000. But in bigger cities like NY, LA, or Chicago, the much higher cost of living would probably only classify such a salary as "upper middle class." Well if you were to make $125,000 and Obama is president you would be another member of the evil rich who need to be taxed more in order to fund his social welfare programs. Instead of maybe just cutting spending and being happy with the amount of money the government takes from individuals, we don't pay taxes.
Business bad? Fuck you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning huh? Fuck you, pay me.
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: olivant]
#483226
04/09/08 01:33 PM
04/09/08 01:33 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
|
Consigliere to the Stars
![](/ubb/5stars10k.gif)
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
|
Well, I'm not going to waste my time to retort to all of your statements most of which are just emotional sophistry based on anecdotal information. You might also consider that DT accused America of racism.
The poll tax was only applied in the south and then only as of the early 1900s. In Texas, it was initiated in 1906. The White Primary in Texas was intitaed in 1923 and all white primaries anywhere were declared unconsitutional in 1944.
Cite your historical evidence for widespread racial discrimination in public facilities outside of the south.
Again, without the compromises embodied in the US Constitution there would not be a US Constitution and, thus, no US, and thus, no end to slavery.
The 14th amendment only requires that governmental processes that seek to deprive a citizern of life, liberty, or property follow due process of law. Its equal protection clause only requires that citizens have equal access to and application of the law. It is moot regarding the content of those processes or those laws. Again, and consistent with the amendment's legislative history, the Supreme Court ruled that the applicable Louisiana law was not violative of that amendment's provisions.
Try taking a constitutional law course and and read a book or two about US History. You might also want to read James Madison's or Rufus King's notes taken at the Constitutional Convention. Also, learn the difference between due process arguments and substantive due process arguments in the meantime. Until then, you might want to exercise the better part of valor and think before you write. Nice dodge Olivant. Almost as rife with sophistry as your disingenuous and intellectually flawed response to my earlier post.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: dontomasso]
#483243
04/09/08 02:47 PM
04/09/08 02:47 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,022 Texas
olivant
|
![](/ubb/5stars10k.gif)
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,022
Texas
|
Well, I'm not going to waste my time to retort to all of your statements most of which are just emotional sophistry based on anecdotal information. You might also consider that DT accused America of racism.
The poll tax was only applied in the south and then only as of the early 1900s. In Texas, it was initiated in 1906. The White Primary in Texas was intitaed in 1923 and all white primaries anywhere were declared unconsitutional in 1944.
Cite your historical evidence for widespread racial discrimination in public facilities outside of the south.
Again, without the compromises embodied in the US Constitution there would not be a US Constitution and, thus, no US, and thus, no end to slavery.
The 14th amendment only requires that governmental processes that seek to deprive a citizern of life, liberty, or property follow due process of law. Its equal protection clause only requires that citizens have equal access to and application of the law. It is moot regarding the content of those processes or those laws. Again, and consistent with the amendment's legislative history, the Supreme Court ruled that the applicable Louisiana law was not violative of that amendment's provisions.
Try taking a constitutional law course and and read a book or two about US History. You might also want to read James Madison's or Rufus King's notes taken at the Constitutional Convention. Also, learn the difference between due process arguments and substantive due process arguments in the meantime. Until then, you might want to exercise the better part of valor and think before you write. Nice dodge Olivant. Almost as rife with sophistry as your disingenuous and intellectually flawed response to my earlier post. Well, you have every opportunity right now to rebut my statements in this post particularly about the 14th amendment and providing historical evidence for widespread racial discrimination (particularly by governmental entities - i.e., De Jure segregation) outside the South. Go ahead. Tell us all about the legislative history of the 14th amendment and its original intent by its authors Rep. John Bingham and Sen John Sherman. What's stopping you? Tell us all about what James Madison's notes taken at the Constitutional convention tells us about the subject of slavery during that Convention. Tell us about White Primaries and the Poll Tax outside of the South. Go ahead. We're waiting.
Last edited by olivant; 04/09/08 02:48 PM.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: Don Alessandrio]
#483246
04/09/08 02:56 PM
04/09/08 02:56 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907 Born on the Bayou
Saladbar
Underboss
|
Underboss![](/ubb/2stars.gif)
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,907
Born on the Bayou
|
Well if you were to make $125,000 and Obama is president you would be another member of the evil rich who need to be taxed more in order to fund his social welfare programs. Instead of maybe just cutting spending and being happy with the amount of money the government takes from individuals, we don't pay taxes.
Not just Obama, explain why McCain voted against TWO Republican tax cuts (2001 and 2003) that required that Cheney break the tie & then quoted as saying he voted against it because cuts were only for the rich. Evil rich! (agreed with him there ![wink ;\)](/threads/images/graemlins/classic/wink.gif) -- yet of course he has flip flopped this idea during the campaign trail this year *surprise* so who know what would happen as prez). BTW I don't think Republicans cut spending. The increase in spending presided over by President Bush has been due to Republicans until the latest Congress. Bush cut taxes but roughly doubled the spending over the tax cut. There's no such thing as Santa Claus. That money will have to be repaid in the future. Given that we have been running deficits the whole time under Bush, and the debt has almost doubled in the past 7 years, maybe more. The thing that all of these anti-taxers forget is that even if we eliminated all federal government costs down to $0, we still have almost $10 trillion in debt we have to pay off.
"Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it"
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: goombah]
#483284
04/09/08 04:59 PM
04/09/08 04:59 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 295 Cincinnati, Oh
Don Alessandrio
Capo
|
Capo
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 295
Cincinnati, Oh
|
The current Republicans have most definitly lived pretty high on the hog the last 8 years. They of course say it is only because of the war. I by no means think McCain is going to cut spending or taxes.
Business bad? Fuck you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning huh? Fuck you, pay me.
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: goombah]
#483331
04/10/08 10:12 AM
04/10/08 10:12 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
|
![](/ubb/5stars10k.gif)
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
|
Overnight about a thousand Ron Paul signs sprouted up all over the place. Some are homemade. I thought of a slogan for him: "If Ralph Nader isn't delusional enough for you, vote Paul."
The Many Obama signs I see throughout central PA simply state, "Veterans for Obama." His campaign brochure, which I received in the mail, emphasizes his work and commitment to blue collar workers, and friendship with Bob Casey. It also contains references and a picture of his grandfather when he served in the military.
McCain hasn't been here much, not that he has to.
Hillary's recent tv ads in central PA attack Bush on prescription medication, energy and the economy.
While Hillary should carry PA, Obama very well may solidify the nomination. this could be the only time we'll ever see a candidate win the party's primaries in California, New York, Florida, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Michigan, Ohio AND Massachusetts...but lose the nomination.
|
|
|
Re: Presidential Primaries 2008
[Re: pizzaboy]
#483338
04/10/08 11:06 AM
04/10/08 11:06 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797 Pennsylvania
klydon1
|
![](/ubb/5stars10k.gif)
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
|
Klyd, if Obama were to only lose PA by 5 points (as current polls are showing), it would be a remarkable "comeback," wouldn't it?
She won all the big states, yes, but not by the landslide amounts that Obama has won the small states. There's the difference.
By the way---If she wins PA by less than 4 or 5 percentage points, she only "nets" about 10 more electoral votes on the night than he does. Two weeks ago, the Obama camp thought that a 5 point loss would be a miracle. Today it's realistic, and I think possible although I would guess Hillary will win by more than 5. Actually Hillary won Ohio, Massachusetts, New York, California, Michigan and Florida by double digits. Of course, Mich and Fla came without delegates or opponents' names, but she certainly would have carried those states anyway. You're right about Obama's margins in other states, except for Missouri, which I believe was very close. By the way, it's good to have you back again, pizzaboy.
|
|
|
|