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Re: In your opnion??
[Re: Turnbull]
#443447
10/14/07 11:52 AM
10/14/07 11:52 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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Viewing it for the first time...made me sympathetic to Fredo.
Thinking about it later...I came to realize that Fredo had to go--he was a threat to Michael as long as he was alive. Ditto. And I'll add that in context with the business he & his family were in and how he treated his brother as well as his Don...Fredo got exactly what he deserved.
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: In your opnion??
[Re: AppleOnYa]
#443500
10/14/07 04:04 PM
10/14/07 04:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,527 In a van down by the river!
Longneck
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,527
In a van down by the river!
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Right? I'm a little surprised with some of the replies here. Considering they're movies about family, where is the compassion??? Viewing it for the first time...made me sympathetic to Fredo.
Thinking about it later...I came to realize that Fredo had to go--he was a threat to Michael as long as he was alive. Ditto. And I'll add that in context with the business he & his family were in and how he treated his brother as well as his Don...Fredo got exactly what he deserved. Fredo was selfish and stupid.
Long as I remember The rain been coming down. Clouds of Mystery pouring Confusion on the ground. Good men through the ages, Trying to find the sun; And I wonder, Still I wonder, Who'll stop the rain.
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Re: In your opnion??
[Re: johnny ola]
#443573
10/15/07 12:11 AM
10/15/07 12:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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Even if that brother helped in an assasination attempt on his brother and his wife, not to mention the damage caused to some of their children's toys? Do you believe Fredo knew it was gonna be a hit on Michael?? Sure, Fredo was stupid, but is that reason enough to kill your own brother?? Mike could have easily sent him away instead of killing him. It was the defining moment when Mike lost his soul, and although I was sorry to see Mary die in the end of Part III, I thought it was almost a "payback" for his killing his own brother.
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Re: In your opnion??
[Re: SC]
#443591
10/15/07 05:04 AM
10/15/07 05:04 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Fredo didn't know.
And if anything, after Fredo's outburst in that boat house scene, Mike should have realized even more that Fredo didn't realize that there was going to be a hit. After that outburst Mike should have realized that his brother was dumb witted, weak and easily manipulated, and should have never made the decision to kill his own brother, his father's son, his mother's son. The thought of killing his own brother, especially one that was so dumb and simple, should NEVER have even crossed his mind.
C'mon now, even Neri, Mike's own cold blooded gun for hire, has a look on his face, when Michael gives him the nod, like, "are you fucking kidding me, I can't believe you're going to kill your poor ole brother."
What a cold hearted bastard!
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: In your opnion??
[Re: Don Cardi]
#443616
10/15/07 05:51 AM
10/15/07 05:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,845 Newcastle-upon-Tyne UK
Yogi Barrabbas
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 8,845
Newcastle-upon-Tyne UK
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Only a scum would have his own brother, especially one that was weak and feable minded, murdered. Indeed! He could have just exiled him rather than kill him.. Poor Fredo!
I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees!
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Re: In your opnion??
[Re: Yogi Barrabbas]
#443639
10/15/07 09:38 AM
10/15/07 09:38 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773 Pittsburgh, PA
The Last Woltz
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 773
Pittsburgh, PA
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I don't believe that Fredo had to be whacked.
If exiled, he would not have been a threat to the family (or the Family). He was too stupid to mastermind anything and too scared to go against the family. I also do not believe that he knew it was going to be a hit.
Mentally and emotionally, Fredo was a child. C'mon, he thought Hail Marys help you catch fish. He was easily manipulated. He was impulsive, selfish, and venal. He had a temper.
But he was repentant, and he was no continuing threat to Michael and his killing was a new low - even for someone like Michael (as he comes to realize).
"A man in my position cannot afford to be made to look ridiculous!"
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Re: In your opnion??
[Re: Don Cardi]
#443645
10/15/07 10:02 AM
10/15/07 10:02 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Fredo didn't know.
And if anything, after Fredo's outburst in that boat house scene, Mike should have realized even more that Fredo didn't realize that there was going to be a hit.
Michael knew all that when he talked to Tom in the boathouse right after the failed hit.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: In your opnion??
[Re: Longneck]
#443655
10/15/07 12:28 PM
10/15/07 12:28 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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If Fredo was exiled you guys think there is no chance he would try to kill Mike and take over? He's DUMB but he could still get lucky. There's not much of a chance he would do that but why leave any chance?
What if Fredo got so angry while he was exiled he talked to the FBI? Neither of those scenarios would pan out. Sure, Fredo may have been angry at his lowly standing in the Family, but he wasn't hateful towards his family.
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Re: In your opnion??
[Re: Don Cardi]
#443668
10/15/07 02:02 PM
10/15/07 02:02 PM
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,540 AZ
Turnbull
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,540
AZ
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We will never know what Fredo did or didn't know or do re. the Tahoe shooting. But let's go with what we do know: 1. Fredo actively conspired with Roth and Ola against his brother's interests, for his own personal gain. ("Johnny Ola bumped into me in Beverly Hills...he said you were being tough on negotiations...but if they could get some help, there'd be something in it for me."[emphasis added.] 2. Fredo's involvement with Roth and Ola was deeper than his disingenuous "bumping into" Ola in Beverly Hills. (At the Superman show: "Johnny Ola brought me here...old man Roth would never come here, but ol' Johnny knows these places like the back of his hand.") Fredo could not possibly have gone clubbing with "ol' Johnny" during that visit to Havana, right under Michael's nose. He had to have been to Cuba with Ola (and maybe Roth) earlier. 3. Fredo had expected to be named head of the family. He was deeply resentful of Michael. ("I'm your older brother, Mike...I was passed over...IT AIN'T THE WAY I WANTED IT!!!) 4. The drapes in Michael and Kay's bedroom were opened to give the gunmen clear shots at Michael. ("Michael, why are the drapes open?" followed by machine gun fire through the window.) 5. Fredo had some role in the events of that night. ("You guys lied to me"--to Ola on the phone afterward; "I swear to God, Mike, I didn't know it was gonna be a hit"--to Michael in the boathouse.) The last two statements could suggest that Fredo didn't know his involvement would be fatal to Michael (and maybe Kay). But, it is a fact that Fredo betrayed his brother for his own gain; and that Michael and Kay were nearly killed as a result. The best-case scenario (and it's a reach, IMO) is that Fredo was so terminally stupid that he thought that Ola and Roth might want to kidnap Michael and somehow convince him, without harming him, to let Fredo take over. Anyone stupid enough to fall for that is a danger on and on. Worst case (and the one I believe): Fredo knew good and well that he was opening the drapes to facilitate his brother's assassination, or simply closed his eyes and ears to that outcome in his lust to take over the family--and for revenge. Either way, he couldn't be forgiven or trusted. Yes, DC, Michael was definitely a cold-hearted bastard. And he acted cold-heartely in the way he lured his brother back into the bosom of the family, tricking Anthony and Connie (and Fredo) into believing that he forgave him. He could have had him whacked in New York (Tom evidently knew where he was, as in "Get word to Fredo...") and spared the rest of the family that cruel charade. But Fredo deserved to die--he was a danger to Michael and his family.
Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu, E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu... E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
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