No way.... she dropped a patient (Tony) because of her ego... she's a [BadWord].

That's what I meant SC. I don't think her character was given any justice by dropping Tony.

Thats not Chase's style.... fans of him liked his shows partly because everything wasn't always tied up into a neat bundle.

That aside, its nice to see you back here. I hope all is well.

That IS interesting!

But can you plz delete this before Olivant reads it?

Don't worry about him. He's too busy crying over Ade. The realization is finally setting in.

It only took 3 years.

Ditto. Chase doesn't owe us anything. We pay our money and we take our chances.

Posted by SC:
Thats not Chase's style.... fans of him liked his shows partly because everything wasn't always tied up into a neat bundle.

*****
Possibly...however, even the sound of a gunshot just before that cut to black (or blue) might've been helpful. At least that would indicate that somebody was hit.

Apple

Hey, there are plenty of Board members plus other series' fans who believe that the "real" ending will be on the DVD or in a movie. Soooooooo...

OK OK.

I loved the ending, it was perfect for The Sopranos. David Chase wasn't going to tie up every story line, I don't know who could expect that after watching the show for 85 episodes and expect this one to be different.

I DID not know THAT. [/Johnny Carson voice]

I agree with Pizzaboy. I think that Melfi and Tony were too important to the show and to one another, that her actions were too out of character, and that I believe that it was a cheap thing to do. As PB said, both Melfi and Bracco deserved better.

Aw shucks Miss Babe, I like you too.

First Apple, welcome back. Hope all is well with you and your daughter.

Now in regards to the ending. I believe that Chase did NOT let us hear a shot to purposely leave the interpretation to the viewer. The last 5 minutes were extremely suspenseful. Some saw those guys walking in as hitmen. Others may have seen them as bodyguards. Others, just as normal diners in the restaurant who we magnified because of the suspense filled theme of that scene.

The one guy walks into the bathroom as Meadow finally gets the car parked, causing her a delay in sitting at the table. Fade to black. Silence. Does he come out of the bathroom thinking that Tony is sitting all alone on that side of the table? Does he come out shooting and hit Meadow instead of Tony as she slides next to him at the table?

Or were these guys bodyguards. If you re-watch you will see that each guy walks into the restaurant seconds before one of Tony's family memebers walks in.

Or did it end, as others have already pointed out, with the real family being together, just as many past seasons have ended?

I think that it was brilliant of Chase to cause all that suspense and then cut to black and silence. Personal interpretation for all that watched.

The final five minutes to me represent the danger that is always present in Tony's life. He has to look over each shoulder knowing that someone could cap him in the head.

The dinner scene also represents the story of the Soprano family continuing as usual. We just get to watch anymore!

I agree that the show ended just as it has existed - Tony never knows what lies ahead, if the next person to walk in the door will be the cops, his killer, whatever.

PB, then why don't you answer my PMs??

Possibly, but as was also discussed on Curtis & Kuby earlier this morning...the time for interpretation/speculation is BEFORE the finale, not after.

Those who are calling Chase's final cut 'brilliant' remind me of the people who go to art show and fawn over the stroke of a brush or shapeless sculpture because they think they're supposed to...otherwise let on that they aren't as hip & sophisticated as everybody else. (Anyone ever read 'The Emperor's New Clothes'...???)

Series finales, especially for shows of this stature, are in general quite difficult because expectations are so high that you never really satisfy everybody (except in the case of the final 'Newhart' which is a true classic...). But loyal fans deserve some kind of closure even if they don't necessarily like what they get.

For those who feel there's a movie or dvd coming...what would it possibly contain? The entire final episode PLUS what happened during the mysterious cut to black (or blue)? If that ended up being the case then it amounts to a HUGE ripoff and insult to the diehard fans who now have to WAIT god-knows-how-much-longer and then PAY to see the ending they expected last night.

But I personally don't think that's the case. I think it's over.

Like I said...no skin off my nose since I've never watched the show anyway. But based on what I've heard/read so far this morning, Chase copped out big time.

Apple

Thats funny.... those who are calling it a copout (and NEED closure) remind me of people with no imagination at all. They have to be spoonfed pablum or else their bowels get twisted out of shape.

Wasn't the guy at the diner watching Tony the same guy who played Dave Scantino's brother-in-law in season 2? Dave Scantino was the friend Tony busted out for his business.

Anyway, I just rewatched it, and I think the biggest thing everyone missed tonight is AJ quoting Tony at the diner after complaining about his work.

AJ: "Remember the good times."
Tony: Oh, you're gonna get smart now?
AJ: No, didn't you say that once? You gotta remember the good times.
Tony: I guess it's true.

AND



Buffalo bagels!!

Who is Melfi?? God?? She's not capable of being lesser than what she SHOULD be??? Its not possible that she's as frail and as human as the show's other characters?? Why?? Because she's a doctor??

Yeah, it was out of character for her to "turn" on Tony, but her ego got the better of her and she fucked up. EVERY other main character on the show had some issues and she just lasted longer (at being an OK gal) than the others. MAYBE some of Tony rubbed off on her.... but I wouldn't say she deserved better (and certainly wouldn't say that Lorraine Bracco did either).

Posted by SC: "...those who are calling it a copout (and NEED closure) remind me of people with no imagination at all..."




Thanks...I had really missed using those Smilies!!

Imagination is a wonderful thing...but I suppose those who needed NO CLOSURE wouldn't have even bothered to watch last night's finale (supposedly on the edge of their seats) after all these years/months of anticipation.

I suppose they wouldn't have even required a 'finale', as opposed to the series simply ending.

All you Soprano fans, imagine away...whatever you decide happened, you KNOW you're not wrong!!!

Apple

Chase did a wonderful job of "inventing" all these great, interesting charcters and developing them over the years. Of course I tuned in last night hoping to get one final glimpse at them but I don't feel "robbed" that the series ended without a definite act of closure.

IF Chase had gone that route THAT would have been a copout.

OF COURSE, the finale was brilliant! Chase pulled out a FEW more directorial tricks and kept us on pins and needles until the VERY end. The public wanted and EXPECTED something special from Chase and they got it.

Is Tony dead or alive? This WAS such a wild ride. God, what a show..

Amazing how most predictions were so wrong. And now people can argue about how it really ended.

Oh yes, great scene.

Tony is a smart guy - the type of guy you would want your daughter to marry - unfortunately he's in the mafia.

He's a product of his society. He did what he had to do, the same that we ALL do. I'm sure he can die happy knowing that his grandchildren will have more choices in their lives than he did.

So your opinions are based on hearsay?

It's great that many of us made predictions and speculated on this finale and then Chase does something completely different with it. It now opened up some good discussion here with some really good comparisons and ideas of how each of us viewed the ending differently. An ending that provokes some interesting thought and debate. Good stuff.

No, SC, not that Melfi is God. It's that the way her character has been developed over the years, I couldn't imagine her doing that to a patient, especially one that she had treated for as long as Tony. I don't think that it was in character, and that it was a cheap copout.

Obviously, Chase wants us to believe that she gave in to peer pressure, but I personally found the storyline completely unbelievable. First and foremost, I can't imagine a therapist blurting out a patient's secrets: A. In front of them and B. At a dinner party. The man would have lost his license!! Secondly, I think that it was out of character for Melfi to be so cruel to a long-time patient, especially one whose son was so recently institutionalized for depression and attempted suicide, who also had a history of depression.

Sorry, I didn't buy it. It seemed cheap and contrived, and thrown together at the last minute. Not only did the character and the actress deserve better, but so did the audience.

Basically, yes.

Because since about 6:00 a.m. I've already heard plenty of Soprano fans say they were unhappy with the final blackout (or blue-out).

In addition, of course...to the several others (Emperor's New Clothes) who seem overly fond of the word 'brilliant'.



Apple

Or...is it possible that one could genuinely like the episode?