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Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39498
06/19/06 12:52 PM
06/19/06 12:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,544
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,544
AZ
Quote
Originally posted by klydon1:
Moreover, I always found it curious that he knew that the senator pursuing Michael belonged to Roth, but Michael (so late in the game) had no idea and appeared thunderstruck upon hearing the news.

How would Fredo get acquire this information and why would he be entrusted with it?
Klydon, it is curious. But, the quick answer is that it made for a dramatic moment--one of many in the Trilogy where directorial license trumps logic.
To be fair to FFC: Michael may already have known that Questadt belonged to Roth--he didn't seem to be thunderstruck when he heard it. And Fredo might have seen Questadt around Roth (or Ola), or heard one or both talking to or about Questadt. If true, this could suggest that Fredo was in far deeper than he let on in the boathouse.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39499
06/19/06 01:07 PM
06/19/06 01:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
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dontomasso  Offline OP
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
In an effort to explain everything outside the scope of directorial license (or oversight) I would posit that Fredo knew Queatadt belonged to Roth because he saw him in Havana with the Roth entorage. Alrthough he was kept pretty much in the dark it would not have been a big deal for Fredo to know that Roth owned the senate counsel, and frankly he would have probably never connected the dots until Michael was hauled before the committee.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39500
06/19/06 02:40 PM
06/19/06 02:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Seeing Questadt within the Roth 'entourage' would not necessarily indicate that he 'belongs' to Roth.

After all, Sen. Geary, who also served on the Hearings Commitee, was also a member of the Corleone 'entourage' in Havana on New Year's Eve...was that supposed to serve as public notice that Geary 'belonged' to Michael Corleone?

And if it does, then it's entirely possible that Michael already knew about the Questadt/Roth relationship, and the one thing Fredo could offer was really no big news except to the audience.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39501
06/19/06 02:44 PM
06/19/06 02:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
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Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
To be fair to FFC: Michael may already have known that Questadt belonged to Roth--he didn't seem to be thunderstruck when he heard it. /QB]
This little, but important, scene is becoming more and more interesting to me. I'm seeing it in a completely new light.
When Michael asked Fredo if there was anything else to know, and Fredo replies with the information about Roth and the senator, I had always thought that Michael's glare of disgust was the result of learning the information, but it appears that his reaction was the result of his anger over Fredo being involved to such an extent that he would know this. Also, it had to be especially hurtful, finding out Fredo knew this, but didn't share it until he was on the hot seat.

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39502
06/19/06 03:31 PM
06/19/06 03:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
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dontomasso  Offline OP
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Quote
Originally posted by klydon1:
Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
To be fair to FFC: Michael may already have known that Questadt belonged to Roth--he didn't seem to be thunderstruck when he heard it. /QB]
This little, but important, scene is becoming more and more interesting to me. I'm seeing it in a completely new light.
When Michael asked Fredo if there was anything else to know, and Fredo replies with the information about Roth and the senator, I had always thought that Michael's glare of disgust was the result of learning the information, but it appears that his reaction was the result of his anger over Fredo being involved to such an extent that he would know this. Also, it had to be especially hurtful, finding out Fredo knew this, but didn't share it until he was on the hot seat.
Excellent point about Michael's reaction, especially in light of what happened just before. Michael asks Tom what does Fredo know, and Tom says he doesnt know anything, then Michael says he wants to see Fredo himself, and learns that he knows something after all. He could be mad at Fredo and disappointed with Tom (again).


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39503
06/21/06 11:00 AM
06/21/06 11:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
klydon1  Offline

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Pennsylvania
I also think that Michael's cold, passionless response to Fredo after learning what Fredo knew is one of the most intense moments of the trilogy. Fredo's fate was sealed.
To say, "You're nothing to me now" to your brother in such a dispassionate way reflects complete heartlessness, which was also evidenced when he closed the door on Kay's face.

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39504
06/21/06 01:53 PM
06/21/06 01:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Yes, but then he went all squishy on Kay in GF III


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39505
06/21/06 02:02 PM
06/21/06 02:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Incidentally, I tried to watch that movie AGAIN last night and was bored silly after 10 minutes.

Granted, I came across it on AMC well into the film (got to see the AC hit & Michael's stroke) ... but still there was absolutely nothing there to hold me.

Plus it was bedtime...seemed fitting.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39506
06/21/06 02:07 PM
06/21/06 02:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Quote
Originally posted by AppleOnYa:
Incidentally, I tried to watch that movie AGAIN last night and was bored silly after 10 minutes.

Apple
Took you that long? I am usually unconscious by the time Connie says "will someone please 'hail mary' oh escuse me your excellency."


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39507
06/21/06 05:58 PM
06/21/06 05:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Speaking of that AC hit scene...I found it extremely goofy how Michael had someone (was it Neri?) pass around those envelopes to the other Dons, I suppose containing checks for the gambling business had made for them.

Looked like passing bonuses around at the office Christmas party.

Just one more bite out of that rotten egg.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39508
06/21/06 09:39 PM
06/21/06 09:39 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 100
Ann Arbor
S
stavka Offline
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stavka  Offline
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Ann Arbor
"We may be too late to save this Pope!"

Saw that again this afternoon....


"I don't shine shoes no more..."
Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39509
06/21/06 10:06 PM
06/21/06 10:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,597
Pennsylvania, USA
exgigirl Offline
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I thought both Vincent and Neri passed out envelopes.

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39510
06/21/06 10:12 PM
06/21/06 10:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Ok, fine the both of them passed out the envelopes.

Either way it was a very silly scene. I also think it dragged endlessly after Zaza got snubbed & pissed off.

One valuable lesson I took away from watching it though...when being shot at from all sides, don't run for your 'lucky coat'.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39511
06/21/06 10:18 PM
06/21/06 10:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,597
Pennsylvania, USA
exgigirl Offline
Underboss
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Posts: 1,597
Pennsylvania, USA
Yes, Apple, you're right, it was silly. I think a lot of the dialogue in all the movies was silly. But it worked, for the past 30 some years. I'll have to review my copy of the DVD just to make sure. Unless you review yours first and let me know who handed out the envelopes.

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39512
06/21/06 10:52 PM
06/21/06 10:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

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Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
No, exgigirl...GF and GFII have 'worked, for the past 30 some years.' Despite any intermittent silly dialogue and a hole or two in the plots. They worked because they were well written, well crafted, well cast and well acted.

GFIII did not work, does not work and never will work.

Not in the past 15 years, not in the next.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39513
06/22/06 09:47 AM
06/22/06 09:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,024
Texas
O
olivant Offline
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O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,024
Texas
Wait a minute. What's so wrong with Al and Vinnie passing out envelopes containing checks? Michael was there to end his business relationship with the Dons. He liquidated their joint assets and distributed the proceeds. What's so unusual or silly about that? It was part of an overall theme to that meeting. It set the stage for treachery. Makes sense to me. Yes, it could have been done better. The lucky coat dialogue was unnecessary. So was Altobello's acting as he left the meeting. I also wondered why a meeting of the top dons in the country would be attended by call girls anyone of which could have been a FBI plant to report at least on who was and wasn't there.

Other than that, let's cut GFIII a little slack. Madonne!


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39514
06/22/06 09:57 AM
06/22/06 09:57 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 100
Ann Arbor
S
stavka Offline
Made Member
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Ann Arbor
Would that be a cashier's check or American Traveller's?

From what bank do you draw multiple checks made payable to the known bosses of American organized crime? - or maybe they were made out to CASH?

Movie was terrible; wait I should cut it some slack...on it's own it was aweful, but held against GF and GF part III it was terrible.

Actually, held against Jaws 3-D it is still terrible


"I don't shine shoes no more..."
Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39515
06/22/06 10:01 AM
06/22/06 10:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
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Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
"Wait a minute. What's so wrong with Al and Vinnie passing out envelopes containing checks?"

You can defend it all you like, I found it silly. And stavka makes an excellent point. In the business Michael and the other Dons are in, it seems a bit unrealistic that you simply draw and pass out checks to your colleagues (or soon-to-be-ex colleagues) in Organized Crime. In real life, it would probably be done a bit more 'under the table', via bank transfers etc.

That was strictly for show and it was silly.

In keeping with most of the rest of the movie, of course...

The only times I tend to cut 'GFIII a little slack' is when I again attempt to watch it. When it loses me yet again, that's when I stop cutting it slack.

*****
"Movie was terrible; wait I should cut it some slack...on it's own it was aweful, but held against GF and GF part III it was terrible." -- GREAT line, stavka lol (although I'm sure you mean GF part II...)

Just curious is there ANY movie you can hold it against that it might seem ok?
*****

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39516
06/22/06 10:35 AM
06/22/06 10:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
As long as we are trashing GFIII, keep in mind if you cut all of the totally unnecessary opera scenes (and I dont mean the people running around the opera house trying to kill each other....just the scenes from the opera....you have about ten minutes of film time. If you cut out two or three other extraneous scenes ... like Kay arriving by train, you have a 75 minute movie.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39517
06/22/06 10:42 AM
06/22/06 10:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

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Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
And if you cut out the 'gnoochi' scene between the cousins, that allows another 6 minutes of what could've been quality film time.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39518
06/22/06 01:09 PM
06/22/06 01:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
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dontomasso  Offline OP
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Quote
Originally posted by AppleOnYa:
the 'gnoochi' scene between the cousins
Apple
That was truly disgusting. Also the most awkward screen kiss in history.


Also take out all the scenes where people are looking at photographs of themselves and of Apollonia in the old days.
What it amounts to is the GFIII could have been a 60 minute "short."


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39519
06/22/06 01:21 PM
06/22/06 01:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Quote
Originally posted by dontomasso:
[QUOTE]...What it amounts to is the GFIII could have been a 60 minute "short."
I guess the term 'quality not quantity' didn't apply when making this particular film.

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39520
06/22/06 02:18 PM
06/22/06 02:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline OP
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dontomasso  Offline OP
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Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Quote
Originally posted by AppleOnYa:
Quote
Originally posted by dontomasso:
[b] [QUOTE]...What it amounts to is the GFIII could have been a 60 minute "short."
I guess the term 'quality not quantity' didn't apply when making this particular film.

Apple [/b]
Even at sixty minutes its not that hot


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: MYSTERY SOLVED ON THE DRAPES #39521
06/22/06 02:24 PM
06/22/06 02:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
AppleOnYa Offline
AppleOnYa  Offline

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Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
Heck, dontom...the first half hour alone seems more like 60 minutes!!

Apple


A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.

- THOMAS JEFFERSON

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