He puts some of the blame on Tom for not being a wartime consilerge, but did he realize his own limitations as a Don?


Ace

I believe Sonny overestimated his abilities although he probably realized that his father and Tom were smarter than he was.

I think Sonny definitely realized he was not as smart as his father or brother, and that he might not be quite up to the job. I think that's why he snapped at Tom, out of frustration at his own limitations.

In the novel, Sonny flat-out tells Tom and Michael that he knows he's not the man Vito was, but he claims he's as good as anyone short-term or some such. He also admits to Michael that he shot his mouth off at the Sollozzo meeting.

In the deleted scene when Sonny goes into the Don's Office, after the Don is shot, Sonny stares at the Don's empty chair, and then instead of sitting in the Don's chair he sits in a chair on the side of the Don's desk.

This, to me, was symbolic in a couple of ways.

Sonny realized that the S**t had really hit the fan. He realized that there was a strng possibility that the Don would die. And I believe that his staring at the empty Don's chair and not sitting in it symbolized that deep down inside, he knew that he would never be the kind of Don that Vito was. Sonny choosing not to sit in that chair also symbolized the great respect that he had for his father. But he really knew that he could never fill the Don's shoes.



Don Cardi

I thinks he sits in that chair because it's close by and near the phone.

Don Cardi

Just like a cigar: sometimes a chair is just a chair.

The answer is no, he didn't.

But to be fair to Sonny, he would've had neither the time nor the patience to sit around and ponder whether or not he was a good, bad, or adequate Don in comparison to his father. Thrust into this leadership role quite suddenly, he was doing in his opinion the best job he could, running the Family, avenging the attack on his father, and boinking Lucy any time he had an hour to spare.

Apple

Keep in mind that Sonny was never the Don. He was temporarily in charge. That's quite different from being the Don.

Olivant, I must respectively disagree with that. While Vito was incapacitated, Sonny actually was the acting Don. Even his own father aknowledged that :

"I thought -- Santino was a bad Don, rest in peace."


Don Cardi

His temper stopped him from being a good Don because he never stopped to think his actions through!
He justjumped ahead whilst the red mist was still down!

On the other hand, as the novel states, Sonny recognized the Corleone weaknesses one of which was the eroded quality of the Capos. But, only the Don could replace them and Sonny was not the Don.

Ahhh, but we are discussing what the average person knows from the film, and not the novel.

Ok, Ok, Touche!


Don Cardi

]

Don Cardi, am I the average person you are referring to, cause my Momma always tells me Im more than just "average"...

I have read the novel many times, but doen't Vito say Sonny was a "bad Don" in the novel as well? I do not have my copy with me, nor do I recall if this line was in the novel.

Either way Sonny was the acting Don and I am not sure what he thought of his performance.

Ace

He does, in greater detail actually. "I never thought you were a bad consigliere, I thought Santino a bad Don, may his soul rest in peace. He had a good heart but he wasn't the right man to head the family when I had my little misfortune. And who would have thought that Fredo would become such a lackey of women ? So don't feel badly....."
Sorry DC, I know this belongs in the book thread

[/quote] He does, in greater detail actually. "I never thought you were a bad consigliere, I thought Santino a bad Don, may his soul rest in peace. He had a good heart but he wasn't the right man to head the family when I had my little misfortune. And who would have thought that Fredo would become such a lackey of women ? So don't feel badly....."
Sorry DC, I know this belongs in the book thread [/quote]

So there shouldn't be an agument then, If The Godfather himself recognized Sonny as a Don then Sonny truly was a Don. I think Sonny knew that compared to his father he wasn't a Good Don. But Vito is a hard man to compare yourself to in the regard of Donship. I think Sonny knew that he was doing the best he could and didn't care what anybody else thought. But then again this is something I am very unsure of, which is why I posed the question on the board.

Ace

I agree with DC on this matter. Vito refers to Santino as a Don in the book and in the movie. This made him a Don in my opinion, whether it was temporary or not.
The bottom line is that had Santino lived and Vito peacefully retired, Santino would have been formally named the Don. It would have been a mistake but that's neither here nor there.

Very True pizzaboy. Many people forget that if Sonny would have lived, he would have been Don instead of Mike. Michael probably would have been named to a high ranking post or something but he wouldn't have been Don. Some people may disagree and say if Sonny lived Mike would have opted out of being Made into the "family" but I think Mike was in the moment he said "Im with you now, Im with you." So he would have been in the business Don or not.

Yes, I agree. Had Santino lived, when Michael returned from Sicily, he would have been firmly entrenched in the Family business. I don't think it's possible to make up your mind to kill 2 men to avenge the shooting of your father, then just walk away from "the life".

I don't think Sonny thought he was a bad Don. I think he viewed himself as a different kind of Don. His father and brother were both smart, I think he knew he would never be on their level of intelligence. I think he felt that he would be able to compensate for that with his "strength". He wanted to go to war, he didn't want to sit and think out what the next plan should be, he thought he could just beat them rater than out think them, and to him that didn't make him any better or worse, just different than his father and brother.

"Tattaglia's a pimp, he never could have out fought Santino"
Even in Vito's mind, when it came to a sheer knack for violence, Santino was hardly rivaled. However, when it came to the art of war, Santino was out maneuvered by Barzini. And ultimately, Barzini by Michael.

In the novel Sonny says Michael is the one most like his father.
In the movie, I think we see his insecurities and his recognition that he was not as cunning as his father. But overall I believe he thought he was a good Don....one example is when he is bragging to Tom about how he has a hundred button men on the street and how Sollozzzo will die if he shows his ass. When Tom doesn't seem pleased, Sonny is taken aback.

So there shouldn't be an agument then, If The Godfather himself recognized Sonny as a Don then Sonny truly was a Don. I think Sonny knew that compared to his father he wasn't a Good Don. But Vito is a hard man to compare yourself to in the regard of Donship. I think Sonny knew that he was doing the best he could and didn't care what anybody else thought. But then again this is something I am very unsure of, which is why I posed the question on the board.

Ace [/quote]

Well, let's try this once again: "Sonny Corleone recognized these weaknesses in the Family's wartime posture but could not take any steps to remedy them. He was not the Don and only the Don could replace the caporegimes and the Consigliori."