WASHINGTON (Oct. 31) -- The White House and Sen. John Kerry traded their harshest accusations since the 2004 presidential race on Tuesday, with President Bush accusing the Democrat of troop-bashing and Kerry calling the president's men hacks who are "willing to lie."

The war of words, tough even for this hard-fought campaign season, came after Kerry told a group of California students on Monday that those unable to navigate the country's education system "get stuck in Iraq."

The two parties are searching for any edge amid indications Democrats could take back the House and possibly win control of the Senate in next week's midterm elections. Though neither Bush nor Kerry is on any ballot, the bitterness with which they fought each other as 2004 rivals spilled over as both campaign hard for their parties in a race shaped in large measure by public doubts about the Iraq war.

White House press secretary Tony Snow was asked about Kerry 's comment at his regular briefing with reporters, and had clearly come prepared with a lengthy attack. He said the quote "fits a pattern" of negative remarks about U.S. soldiers from the decorated Vietnam veteran and suggested that whether Democratic candidates -- particularly those running on their military service backgrounds -- agree with their 2004 standard-bearer should be a campaign litmus test.

The White House also released in advance remarks Bush was to deliver later in the day while campaigning in Georgia, in which the president called Kerry 's statement "insulting and shameful." Bush, like his spokesman earlier, said soldiers deserve an apology from Kerry .

"Our troops did not enlist because they did not study hard in school or do their homework," Bush said in his prepared remarks for a former GOP congressman, Mac Collins, who is trying to oust Democratic Rep. Jim Marshall. "The men and women who serve in our all-volunteer armed forces are plenty smart and are serving because they are patriots."

Kerry , who is considering another run for the White House in 2008, angrily fired back.

His statement called Republicans "assorted right-wing nut jobs."

And at a hastily arranged news conference in Seattle, Kerry said: "I apologize to no one for my criticism of the president and of his broken policy."

Kerry said the comment in question was "a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops ... and they know that's what I was talking about."



It came during a campaign rally for California Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides. Kerry opened his speech at Pasadena City College with several one-liners, saying at one point that Bush had lived in Texas but now "lives in a state of denial."

He then said: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."That, Kerry said, was meant as a reference to Bush, not troops. Kerry said it is the president who owes U.S. soldiers an apology -- for "a Katrina foreign policy" that misled the country into war in Iraq, failed to adequately study and plan for the aftermath, has not properly equipped troops and has expanded the terrorist threat.

The Massachusetts Democrat called the White House attack "a classic GOP textbook Republican campaign tactic" that reveals Republicans' "willingness to reduce anything in America to raw politics."

"I'm sick and tired of a bunch of despicable Republicans who will not debate real policy, who won't take responsibility for their own mistakes, standing up and trying to make other people the butt of those mistakes," he said. "It disgusts me that a bunch of these Republican hacks who've never worn the uniform of our country are willing to lie about those who did."

Unsubstantiated allegations about Kerry 's Vietnam War heroism from a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth figured prominently in the 2004 Kerry -Bush race. Even Kerry has blamed his slow and uncertain response to the group's claims for helping to doom his White House chances, and Democrats viewed the Tuesday fracas as a test of that lesson.

"Enough is enough. We're not going to stand for this," Kerry said. "We are going to stay in their face with the truth."

Other Republicans, sensing opportunity for their side, piled on throughout the day with their own demands for an apology from Kerry .

GOP Sen. John McCain, like Kerry a decorated Vietnam veteran and a potential 2008 rival, said while campaigning for Republican candidates in Indiana that "the suggestion that only the least educated Americans would agree to serve in the military and fight in Iraq is an insult to every soldier serving in combat today."

Added House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., struggling to keep his party in control of Congress: "Our soldiers risk their lives in the face of grave dangers on the battlefield, and no one who chooses to courageously and selflessly defend our country can be considered 'uneducated.' "

Separately, the White House issued President Bush's Veterans' Day proclamation praising those who have served in the armed forces -- a week and a half before the holiday.

Associated Press Writer Michael Blood in Los Angeles, Mike Smith in Indianapolis, and contributed to this report.


10/31/06 16:25 EST

=================================================================

It's scary that this guy had a shot at being the leader of this country. Typical example of undermining our troops. He should be totally ashamed of himself. Then again, this was a guy who ran for office on the "I served in Vietnam" platform, but threw his medals away. Well I wouldn't want to be standing next to him on the battlefield.




Sounds to me like a little more of "I voted for it, before I voted against it."

How can he now try and twist and deny what he said?

What a spinmaster.

Shameful that this man is a United States Senator.



Don Cardi

Cruiser: "I joined the Army because my father
and my brother were in the Army, and I thought I'd better join
before I got drafted."

Sgt. Hulka: "Son...there ain't no draft no more."

Cruiser: "There was one?"

---

Yeah. I guess my two graduating buddies who are enlisting are being forced to volunteer. You mean the army is an all-volunteer army? Maybe somebody should tell John Kerry there isn't a draft anymore.

He said that if you're dumb and cannot make it in school, then your only option is to go and fight in Iraq. So \he's really saying that our soldiers, who have been fighting and have died, were and are stupid people who couldn't make it in school, so they went into the military. He basically said that our soldiers are uneducated.

I have absolutey no respect, wahtsoever, for anyone who bashes a soldier who is out there fighting for his life, and fighting to protect the lives of the same scumbags, scumbags like John Kerry, who undermine them every chance that they get.


What a piece of shit.



Don Cardi

You're kidding me by starting this thread, right? The fact is uneducated people end up in the army. That is an undeniable fact. Inner city kids are the target of recruiters. The military knows they won't go to college because of America's failed education system. The military needs live bodies to go to Iraq because snotty rich Republican kids won't go. Hell, rich Republicans who support the war so damn much should go. But inner city poor with minimal educational experience end up doing the dirty work for rich fat cats.

When posed with either the ghetto or 3 meals a day and pay for grunt work, many choose the grunt work. These people need the money, but no one will hire them because they failed out or were the product of bad schools.

"Our troops did not enlist because they did not study hard in school or do their homework," apparently he didn't study either because that's a double negative and very poorly constructed sentence.

Thanks for posting this, Don Cardi.

I've been hearing about it all day on the radio...including soundbites of Kerry's backtracking, phony, mudslinging, insincere damage-control rant of a spin today which I assume took place on the Senate Floor. What a crock of shit. It was pretty amusing at times how he tried to turn attention away from his own horribly disrespectful attempt at humor at the expense of our troops. He must've been up all night writing that

Incidentally...I happen to believe that Kerry's wretched joke WAS a "...botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops...".

However, it WAS botched, it DID backfire, it WAS completely inappropriate, and yet one more pitiful statement on a list of many...that Kerry should've thought about before letting it pass through his lips. And I'd like to see him and his like-minded party get all the backlash they deserve.

But remember...we have an incredibly left-wing biased media that may just be low enough to try & protect Kerry with minimal coverage.

Apple

The sad thing though is its true. People who have poor educations end up in the military because the people who started the war sure as hell won't fight it.

WTF So what if uneducated people go in the military? What better way to have the government pay for your education and get good benefits. Educated or not at least they have the guts to join up and put their life on the line. God Bless everyone of them. Even college graduates join up and go in as officers. John Kerry can kiss my hubby's Naval retired ass.

Yup. It must be election time.

I forget. Was it you who recently came out with the dumbest statement EVER posted on the BB?

If yes, you just managed to top yourself. If not, then you've stolen the crown off some other poor slob.

First of all, your misguided statement about 'people who have poor educations' isn't true.

Second, even if it were true, the wording of Kerry's statement and the mere fact that he said it is blatantly disrespectful and unsupportive of ALL of our enlisted men and women, serving in Iraq and all over the world, regardless of level of education.

To be honest, I consider the statement beneath even John Kerry. It's much more in line with something Howard Dean would say.

The 2004 Presidential nominee and the Chairman of the DMC. There you have it...the selected VOICES of the Democratic Party.

And yes...someone started a thread over this. You got a problem with that, it's too bad.

I hope threads are being started over this on every message board in America.

Apple

I like how people are just ignoring that this is fact. The military preys on the under educated.

Oh, I wonder why losers who are products of America's failed education system should not be allowed in the military? Something about giving a weapon to an under educated inner city male smacks of sheer stupidity.

Ok, so how many times do I need to say this? Those people are there, under educated, fighting a war started by rich men. There is something basically wrong with that.

Way to take everything out of context "He was insulting our troops! blah blah blah!" No, he's telling the truth, stop freakin out already and figure out how to keep the pedophiles in the Republican party quiet first before you go back on the attack.

- The war is a failure and the American people were lied to
- The Republicans have a lot of nerve to try and make an issue out of this because they have God only knows how many pedophiles running around the Hill. If there's one, then there are more
- People love taking things out of context
- If you love the damn war so much, then show the troops how much you love them and relieve them from the field.

Why am I kidding you starting this thread Johnny? Last time I looked, I was posting from the United States Of America, land of the free, home of the Consitution of The United States Of America. You know, the same constitution that you and your buddies want to quote when advocating the rights of our enemies? You've got to be kidding me here. You want to quote the constitution when it suits your beliefs, but you want to put it away when it protects my rights. Well now that I got that off my chest, let's move on to the subject at hand.

Only uneducated people join the Military? Are you sure about that Johnny? Are you sure that you want to lump all of the Service men and woman into that category?

Yes, it is true that many people who cannot afford a good education turn to the military. I won't deny that. But not ALL soldiers are education deprived or are stupid as you and your buddy Senator Kerry seem to think.

West Point Military Academy requires a four year college education , and a five year active Army commitment. It is probably the most well-known of all commissioning programs, but the hardest to qualify for. To qualify academically at West Point you need to have an above average high school or college academic record.

Are these dumb and uneducated people? I think not.


West Point is just one of many military schools that require a four year college education with above average standards.

But putting all that aside, who the hell are you or John Kerry
( hey, maybe Mad Johnny IS really John Kerry to undermine and belittle the soldiers that are getting blown up on the front lines to protect your ass everyday?

There is absolutely NO EXCUSE for what John Kerry said about our soldiers. You cannot defend him in any way shape or form on this one. Sorry.


Don Cardi

You're a jerk, plain and simple. I never said all, so don't try and ignore the FACT that military recruiters prey on inner city kids. There is a real problem with the amount of under educated people in the army. I'm sure those with college degrees are the minority.

Where in the hell do you get off calling one of the most respected members Don Cardi a jerk? Get off your high horse. Like I said before who cares if the people are educated or not. They get plenty of training before they go to their positions.

He just comes up with stuff to fit his point by mis reading my posts. That is why I said it.

What does that have to do with this issue? Is this the typical way to take the limelight off of what John Kerry said? By bringing up something totally irrelevant to THIS issue?



Whether Amricans were lied to or not, that is not an excuse for what John Kerry said to undermine the the soldiers that are still fighting a war over there. A compeltely different issue that has absolutely nothing to do with what was said.



You see, to you it is a political party issue. To me it's an issue about supporting the troops. Doesn't matter to me if a republican or a democrat said this. For me, politcal party is NOT the issue. It is a disgusting thing for ANYONE to say and do to the troops, period.



Explain to me how this was taken out of context? All you have to do is listen to or read what Kerry said. It's basic comprehension. Common sense. How can you not comprehend what was clearly said? Hey, being that you can't seem to comprehend what was said, according to John Kerry you're now qualified to fight over in Iraq!



Where did anyone HERE say that they love the war? For that matter where was it said HERE that they even support the war? Wasn't it John Kerry who said that one can support the troops without supporting the war? Well what happend to that spin?

Talk about Blah Blah Blah.

Yeah yeah, I know, he voted for it before he voted against it.

NO EXCUSE!!!!


Don Cardi

- Republicans are spinning this against Kerry

- I was saying this. I was not addressing anything you said exactly. Its ok to bring other thing into a conversation. Its not cool to make people's statements fit your theories

- It is a party issue. Otherwise, Kerry would have never made the statement

- His statement was targeted at the fact the education system in America sucks

- Love the troops by bringing them home

I'm a jerk and the soldiers are uneducated and stupid. You people just LOVE to make personal attacks when you cannot debate or argue the issue intelligently with facts.


Johnny, if you can't debate the issue without the infantile name calling and personal attacks, then please, move on to another thread and leave the debating here to the mature people.


Don Cardi

You're the one who loves to just make what I say fit your argument when it doesn't and ignore the points that I've made. Keep trying to ignore that the education system in America sucks and the military preys on poor individuals.

If a Republican had said the same thing wouldn't the Democrats be spinning also?

But that is beside the point what that man said was disgusting and wrong.

Cardi asked a question and that was my reply. See above

Hey, maybe you are right. Maybe you just proved your own point about the education system with your satement above. Because if you really had comprehended what I said in a post I made above, you wouldn't have made this statement.



Johnny, it is quite obvious that you are trying to turn this into a personal arguement because you refuse to stick to the topic itself. I am not interested in your name calling and your ridiculous finger pointing. So again, if you cannot refrain from the name calling and the personal attacks, then please do not bother to participate in this discussion.


Don Cardi

Cardi, you can not debunk anything factual I have said, so stop trying to stop me with your lame posts.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/recviolations.htm

And to underline how BAD education is in America, look at how you can buy an essay about it for your class!
http://www.cheathouse.com/essay/essay_view.php?p_essay_id=6902

Way to delete your post, but here is my reply anyways:

Throw away your right wing non sense and realize that the poor are abused, the education system in America sucks and poor uneducated people are ending up in Iraq. That's the issue. People with bad educations do end up in Iraq.

Those links proved what I said. Now try and prove what you said. I'm not Kerry, but he raised an issue.

I delted my reply because your links prove nothing. The facts that you try to provide just may be facts, but they are not facts that support how John Kerry undermines the soldiers and John Kerry's dis of the troops over in Iraq.




Want a bigger shovel?



Don Cardi

Um, quoting me out of context just proves you are a jerk. Keep going!!

Because those are the facts you're supposed to look for. I can't research for you. He made a comment about America's education system and I continued that idea.

Regardless of whether or not its true, what Kerry said was despicable. A 4.0 GPA doesn't mean shit on the front line. Kerry should be ashamed of himself.

And Mad Johnny, if you can't debate respectfully and without resorting to name calling, then don't debate. The moderators put these rules here for a reason.

Maybe we could discuss this in a separate thread, but in my experience, the American education system is very good.

[quote][/quote]"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Sooooo.....'John Kerry insults soldiers' by comparing them to college drop outs?

Seems to me he was trying to encourage a bunch of junior college students to work hard and seek admittance to a 4 yr school. To learn about science or the arts or auto mechanics, SOMETHING, ANYTHING other than how to carry your buddies brains around in your back pack over in Iraq.

For F*CKS SAKE people go to your local college/university and you will have no problem finding the army/marine recruitment center. They are recruiting ANYONE AND EVERYONE and college kids are just as prone b/c they need money too. But no matter how political Kerry's comment might have been, he is simply saying 'even though college may seem hard and the rewards at times not worth it, stick with it and don't go to Iraq and kill babies and get your legs blown off even though the army will pay you $40,000 for your trouble.'

However Kerry does need one of those ear pieces Bush always wears or atleast a new political consultant


EDIT-[Expect a Bush/Kerry skull and bones thread tommorow ]