Hi All,

I`ve always wondered how the rank structure worked within the Corleone family.

Obviously The Don is head but i`ve always wondered how the "pecking" order was worked out after that.

It`s natural to assume that Santino was next in charge but i`ve always wondered where Tom fitted in with regards to decision making and who he could be "over-ruled" by.

Was he higher "ranked" than the likes of Tessio and Clemenza. Would he give them orders or the other way around?.

With Vito and Santino dead, and for arguments sake, the assassination attempt on Michael at Lake Tahoe had been successful, would Fredo have been able to give orders before Hagan, Clemenza and Tessio etc?

Am i correct to assume they had a rank and file structure in the first place?.

The first place to start (well, maybe the second place) when discussing hte GF is the novel. It has answers to many questions asked on this Board. Also, it's helpful to read a non-fictionnovel about the Mafia. There's a million out there. By doing so you get a feel for the structure of organized crime.

Tom was Vito's right hand man. That he was raised in Vito's home made him even more so. If you recall from the film, Vito is provided info and advice by Tom about Sollozzo. So, that should be a clue aboput his family status. Sonny asks Tom later what they should do after Vito is shot. That should be a clue also. Tessio and Clemenza are Vito's generals. You never really see Vito or Sonny asking Tessio or Clemenza for advice. If Tom is that close to Vito and Sonny, then it's safe to assume that he can give orders to the generals as the Don's representative.

Again, it's helpful to read the novel.

Welcome to the boards. Somewhere in the archives here there is a photo of the chart they used in GF II showing the power structure of the Corleone family. Maybe someone can dig it up.

Here's a photo of the Family chart:

The chart is helpful, but keep in mind it's a GFII prop. There's no way I'll believe that Fredo was underboss and that Tom ever regained his position as full-fledged Consigliori. In the novel it says that Vito was considering making Sonny his underboss. Apparently, that never happened nor was there ever a mention of an alternative to Sonny. But, it's only a novel; it's only a film.

You asked a fair question, McRod, but I don't believe that anyone other than Vito (and later, Michael) had any real decision-making power. Tom was closer to Vito than either Tessio, Clemenza or Sonny--but that was strictly defensive on Vito's part: He had to give orders to one person at a time so that, if anyone turned rat, there'd be no witnesses (and no felony prosecutions). My take is that Vito listened to Tom's advice, but Tom didn't make any decisions on his own. The only orders Tom gave to Tessio and Clemenza were Vito's, conveyed through Tom. And when Vito was disabled, Sonny was the acting head of the family--but he made only tactical decisions that would hold the fort until Vito recovered. Tessio and Clemenza took orders from Sonny during that period.
As for Michael: He was the hyper-controller. Tom wasn't even his consigliere as Tom was with Vito.

The exception to this is the period when Michael was going to Miami, Cuba and New York when he made Tom the acting Don. I think the whole Geary set up was Tom's doing.

This brings up something else I've been wondering about...

Once Vito retired, how much power and influence did he have over Michael? There's no indication they disagreed over Michael's moves, but if Vito opposed them, what do you think would have happened?

Would Michael have listened to his father? If not, how would it have been handled within the family?

Vito had enormous influence over Michael. He was Michael's mentor. The whole killing of the heads of the other families was Vito's idea. RTemember Vito pledged that HE would never be the one to break the peace, a pledge he kept.

The strong influence Vito had over Michael can be seen readilyin two scenes, the first where Michael shakes up the family organization by telling Tom he is "out," and telling Carlo he is going to be his "right hand man" in Vagas. Now we already know the Don didn't like Carlo and he had told Tom never to give him anything important, and never to trust him with information about the family business. He also suspected Carlo was behind the hit on Sonny, yet he went along with the "keep your enemies closer" ploy and he even congratulated Carlo on his "promotion." Meantime, Tom was upset about this and Vito consoles him saying that he never thought Tom was a bad consigliere, but that Santino rest in peace was a bad don. Then,when Tom asks Michael if he can help, and Michael says "You're not a wartime consigliere, Tom, and things could get rough with the move we're trying to make." So Michael clearly is planning all this with his father, and he even says so...he says besides, if I ever need advice who better can I turn to than my father. This is interesting on another level because Michael is showing Tom his implicit trust. Even though Tom is "out" Michael spills the beans that there is going to be another war. So the trust is still there.

Later in the movie, as Vito has become progressively weaker, he is telling Michael about who the traitor will be, and to check the telephones, and Michael gets a little riled, and he tells his father he took care of it, and that he can handle things, and not to worry.

So clearly Michael is doing his father's bidding and is learning all he can before Vito dies.

In the novel there is futher talk about this because Michael makes some kind of comment that Vito's death came a little too soon for Michael to have consilidated the polotical power his father had.

In the novel, Michael tells Vito, prior to the Great Massacre of 1955, something to the effect that Vito is to have no hand in what is about to happen, and that if he tries to interfere, Michael will go his own way. I infer that Michael is trying to protect Vito from any involvement or in any hint that he might have broke his word to the other Dons when he said, "I swear...that I will not be the first to break the peace we made today." I also infer that Michael is asserting his controller instincts--"I'm in charge now, you're out, Pop."

As for Tom being in charge after the Tahoe shooting: Yes, Michael said, "You're gonna take over...you're gonna be the Don." But I seriously doubt that Tom would have ordered the murder of the gal in the brothel and the drugging of Geary on his own. In a thread I posted last year http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthr...true#Post36125, I speculated that since Geary told Tom (re. the dead hooker): "We done it be-foe-wer," he must have been a regular in Fredo's brothel. Fredo or the manager would have spotted him and reported it directly to Tom or Michael. They would have stashed that valuable piece of info for future use. I guessed that after the "oily hair/silk suit" scene, Michael told Tom and Neri something to the effect: "Nail his ass the next time he shows up in the brothel." So, I guessed, that plot was already in motion before Michael left.

TB,
In your link you mentioned Sen Geary striking back in rebute against Mike, and 'ALMOST' doing so at the hearings on la cosa nostra. When does this occur? Is it after Geary makes his 'italian-americans are the backbone of this country speech' and suddently exits stage left to participate in another meeting? Did Mike expect Geary to possibly re-direct some of the questioning in his favor or force some of the other senators to back off a bit during their questioning?

One of my pet theories is that Geary was part of the plot to trap Michael into perjuring himself:

Geary appeared to be helpful to Michael at the hearing. He specifically asked Cicci if he'd ever gotten a direct order from Michael, or if there were always buffers in between. "No, I never talked to him," Cicci replied. Michael breathed a sigh of relief: Cicci must be the committee's top witness, and since he said he never got a direct order from Michael, it was ok for Michael to deny any charges--who could refute him? Thanks for asking that question, Geary!

BUT: As a member of the committee, Geary had to know that they were holding Frankie and had a statement from him. So, when he asked Cicci that question, he may very well have been deliberately leading Michael into a false sense of security. And, if his coglioni were in Michael's pocket after the brothel murder, why didn't he warn Michael that the committee was holding Frankie in secret?

Geary also may have given a classic political two-faced speech just before he left he hearing. When he said "These hearings on the Mafia are in no way a reflection on the great Italian American people," who did he mean by "Mafia" if not the guy in the witness chair: Michael. And when he said "It'd be a shame, Mr. Chairman, if a few rotten apples were allowed to spoil the whole bunch," who did he mean if not the guy in the witness chair: Michael.

Some here may feel that Geary would have been suicidal to try to cross Michael that way. Maybe. But Geary wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer--a US Senator who's a regular at a brothel does not suggest a guy who thinks rationally about his safety. And, as we saw elsewhere in the Trilogy, those who thirst for revenge (like Carlo and Fredo) seldom think of the consequences.

In the novel, Vito tell Michael that maybe he hasn't got the heart anymore to do the things that Michael is about to do. Mike tells Tom that Vito planned alot of it, that he didn't realize how intelligent he was. So, yes, Vito was involved, but, technically, he kept his word about not breaking the peace and that included Tom. Also, as Tessio makes clear, Barzini invaded his territory and has given Michael provocation. So, it is Barzini who has broken the peace.

I agree competely about Geary. His statement about these hearings on the Mafia was obeisance to Michael. Michael had him by the kiskas.

What about Geary in Havana? Why the heck is even there to begin with?

Geary may have been in Havana because Michael summoned him there as a way of asserting Michael's power over him after the brothel murder. He may even have represented some form of "insurance" for Michael to escape Roth's military car assassination plan (perhaps Michael would offer Geary a ride in the same car?). I think he was there because, old lecher that he was, he kind of sets up the Superman scene.

I agree with this too: Geary was in Havana as FFC's way to reinforce Michael's near-omnipotance, his mastery of what was a high and mighty Senator brought to his knees.

I knew Rocco and Frank were capos, but Neri was one too? I thought Michael appointed him as "Head of Security". Am I wrong?

Neri was appointed "head of security" in the novel. But, in GFII, it's Rocco who seems to be "head of security"--and that wasn't, to my mind, a good place for him relative to Neri. You see Rocco constantly scanning the crowd at Anthony's party while Neri is nowhere to be found. But then Neri turns up in the meeting with Johnny Ola. He introduces himself as if he's a full partner in the ensuing discussion (which Tom is not invited to attend because "Tom won't be sitting in with us today--he handles only specific matters..."). Meanwhile Michael dispatches Rocco: "Johnny's men look hungry--why don't you take care of them"--as if Rocco's a caterer in addition to being head of security.
As I've posted a hundred times: a subplot of GFII is how Neri tries to push past Rocco and Tom to become Michael's number-two guy. These and other examples show that he pretty largely succeeded (although "number-two" is meaningless in Michael's domain--there's Michael and no one else).