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Vito left unattended in the hospital
#33328
10/04/05 04:33 AM
10/04/05 04:33 AM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 373
Remember Vito Andolini
OP
Capo
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OP
Capo
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 373
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How come Sonny didn't send his men to protect the Don? Or those bodyguards sold out to Sollozzo? I was surprised that Sonny didn't know the Don was alone in the hospital.
Ricky Roma: You are here to help us... does that seem clear to you? That's your job... To help us, not to fuck us up... to help those who are going out there to try to earn a living... You fairy! You company man!
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Re: Vito left unattended in the hospital
#33333
10/04/05 11:34 AM
10/04/05 11:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Originally posted by MaryCas: I chalk it up to FCC taking artistic license to set the scene and make it more dramatic. It wouldn't have played out right if people were coming and going in the hospital. Good point MC. It did make the scene that much more dramatic. I agree that the reasons you stated were why it was shot that way. What also makes it believable is that we must remember that it took place in an era where hospital visitng hours were not a liberal as today. These days you can basically go to visit someone in a hospital from 10am in the morning to 8Pm at night. Back then I would guess that hospital rules were very strict and visiting hours may have been limited to only a few hours per day. As for Enzo showing up so late, his initial thinking may have been to try and keep a low profile and visit in the off hours. But once he sensed that trouble was near, he stepped up and paid tribute in his own way by hanging around to help Vito and Mike. Don Cardi
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Vito left unattended in the hospital
#33336
10/04/05 01:39 PM
10/04/05 01:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766 South of the Pinelands
MaryCas
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
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Originally posted by Cristina's Way: I must agree that the scene of the empty hospital is downright "Hitchcock-esque."
FFC combines sound and visuals to great effect there. There are so many great scenes and extra touches like that in the movie. BTW, CW I was amiss in not welcoming you to the BB. Your posts have been a breath of fresh air, which many of us stuffy old timers need. I think you nailed it with the "Hitchcock-esque" description. It is an overlooked Coppola technique that lends itself to many of the scenes. Many of us get caught up in the details and the logic of some scenes, but there are many scenes where the artistic side dominates the details and action; this scene being one of them. Another is the Louie's Restaurant scene (recent thread).
Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
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Re: Vito left unattended in the hospital
#33339
10/04/05 04:19 PM
10/04/05 04:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,246
MistaMista Tom Hagen
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,246
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Originally posted by Don Cardi: When the Don was shot, Sonny suspected that Clemenza could be involved, so he used Tessio's men to play it safe. Is this really valid? Upon first reading it, I thought it was interesting in that maybe Sonny made a connection from Paulie's betrayal all the way up the line to Paulie's Capo, Clemenza, which might explain why he had Clemenza personally help take out Paulie. But then I thought more carefully about the chronology of these events, and realized that Paulie was already dead, at least a day or two (remember, right before Mike leaves to visit his father, Sonny asks Clemenza about Paulie, he says "Oh Paulie, won't seem him no more," which couldve implied the hit took place the same day, but Id say at least a day or two), so if Sonny had any suspicions about Clemenza's involvement in Vito's hit, you would think he wouldve proved himself wrong with Clemenza's open involvement in taking out Paulie. Also, Don Cardi, Id be interested to know where you picked up that Sonny suspected Clemenza in the first place. Is there a certain scene or passage in the book that makes you think this? Considering Clemenza is right there in the Don's office planning with Sonny directly following the hit and also Clemenza was earlier allowed into Sonny's home to give him information, it doesnt seem as though Sonny is showing any sort of lack of trust in the fat man.
I dream in widescreen.
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Re: Vito left unattended in the hospital
#33340
10/04/05 04:34 PM
10/04/05 04:34 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238 The Ravenite Social Club
Don Cardi
Caporegime
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Caporegime
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,238
The Ravenite Social Club
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Mista Hagen. Actually there is a scene in the extras DVD, one that I have ALWAYS said should NOT have been edited. A very important scene. When Michael arrives at the house, after learning that his father had been shot, look closely ( this part is not cut out) when he walks through the door. You will see Theresa Hagen sitting outside the Don's office, and right next to her is Clemenza, who gets up and tells Mike that his father is going to pull through, etc. etc. Now you do NOT see Tessio sitting with them. That alone tells me that Clemenza was being kept out of the loop at that moment. Possibly a suspect by Sonny. But the confirmation of this is in the edited scene. Michael continues on into the office, and upon entering the office, Sonny and Tessio are sitting there making a list. Sonny tells Mike that he should leave, etc. Mike tells Sonny that Vito is his father too, etc. So smart ass Sonny turns to Mike and says something to the effect of " Ok College boy, who set up the old man? Was it Clemenza?" And Mike ponders this for a moment and then replies to Sonny that he did not think that it was Clemenza. Sonny confirms this by telling Mike that their man in the Phone company traced calls from the public phone outside the Don's office in the City, and Paulie was the one who made several phone calls and set up Vito. This, in my opinion, is a very key scene that should have never been cut out. In the book, and Plaw or DonT would know the details much better than I, When Sonny goes alone to the Don's office, he gets the Don's phonebook out of the safe. He calls Tessio and tells Tessio that he wants Tessio's men to guard his father. I believe that he tells Tessio NOT to contact Clemenza. And even in the movie, it's Tessio's men who are arrested and removed from the Hospital. We never see or hear Clemenza's men being given any orders to be around or protect Vito. Sonny played it safe because as you said, Clemenza was the one who brought Paulie in, and therefore Sonny gave the hit on Paulie to Clemenza. Don Cardi
Don Cardi Five - ten years from now, they're gonna wish there was American Cosa Nostra. Five - ten years from now, they're gonna miss John Gotti.
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Re: Vito left unattended in the hospital
#33341
10/04/05 04:35 PM
10/04/05 04:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902 New York
SC
Consigliere
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Consigliere
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 22,902
New York
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Originally posted by MistaMista Tom Hagen: Considering Clemenza is right there in the Don's office planning with Sonny directly following the hit and also Clemenza was earlier allowed into Sonny's home to give him information, it doesnt seem as though Sonny is showing any sort of lack of trust in the fat man. You missed this one. Upon hearing that Paulie was out sick when Vito was shot Sonny immediately suspected both Paulie and Clemenza (and had Tessio bring his men to the mall for protection). Remember, when Mike first came home after Vito was shot Clemenza was sitting out in the living room with the women. He (Clemenza) was only allowed back into the inner circle after Sonny had checked the phone records of both Paulie and Clemenza and Paulie was found to be guilty. Clemenza was then given the job of getting rid of Paulie and he eagerly did it (to rid any doubt of his duplicity).
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Re: Vito left unattended in the hospital
#33342
10/04/05 09:32 PM
10/04/05 09:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 564
Cristina's Way
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 564
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Originally posted by MaryCas: BTW, CW I was amiss in not welcoming you to the BB. Your posts have been a breath of fresh air, which many of us stuffy old timers need. Oh, you are so welcome, MaryCas. I lap up praise about my posts ... makes me feel like I'm a good writer or a creative thinker or something. After a welcome like that, I just hope I don't start getting a swelled head (but if I do, I'm sure members will show "tough love" and set me straight. )
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Re: Vito left unattended in the hospital
#33343
10/04/05 09:45 PM
10/04/05 09:45 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 564
Cristina's Way
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 564
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Originally posted by dontomasso: It is reasonable to think that after McCluskey locked up all those "guinea hoods" who were guarding the Don, that some of the hospital personnel may have "excused themselves" from the premises, much like that guy in the toll booth hit the deck as soon as Sonny paid his toll. That's a good theory, which I never thought of. It would certainly account for the atmosphere of sudden abandonment in the hospital. Maybe McCluskey's men even ordered staff at gunpoint to clear out, leaving Vito even more vulnerable. I guess that lone nurse who confronted Michael was on her coffee break when all this was happening. I can't remember if this hospital scene was in the book. I wonder if it was handled the same way and what reason was given for the lone nurse being there.
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