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Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30498
07/06/05 07:15 AM
07/06/05 07:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,735
Lavinia from Italy
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Call it a girly thing, but I've been intrigued by these aspects of the trilogy since the first time I watched GF! As for me, I think Michael loved Kay in quite a rational way (the question is: is a rational love a true love? but ok, that's another issue): she got what he needed to escape from the "Sicilian thing": she was anglosaxon, protestant, well-educated, emancipated, had no links - directly or indirecty -with the underworld. From this point of view Kay was the perfect wife. But this probably was Michael's will BEFORE he was forced in family's business due to Vito's hit. In fact, after he was involved in it, he had to realize Kay was too a problematic woman for him, wanting him not to mingle with the mafia, a promise he had made to her but was not able to keep anymore. Plus I think Michael did not have a strong sexual attraction for Kay, especially when compared to the one he undoubtly had for Apollonia. I never saw the same "fire" in Michael's eyes as he had when looking at the young Sicilian girl, the anti-Kay. Her father being linked to the mafia, Apollonia would have been the typical Mediterranean wife (in those times): submissive to his husband, outstanding cook, excellent mother, hot in bed. It's funny, but once Michael chose to be "his father's son", Apollonia - who doesn't speak English and lived all her life so far away from the USA - had many more things in common with Michael and the Corleones than the all-American Kay. Maybe Micheal loved Apollonia in a more immediate and instinctive way than he did for Kay. I don't know, maybe I'm biased by the fact that I don't like Kay? What do the other boarders think?
I don't want realism. I want magic! Yes, yes, magic. I try to give that to people. I do misrepresent things. I don't tell the truth. I tell what ought to be truth (Blanche/A streetcar named desire)
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30500
07/06/05 08:38 AM
07/06/05 08:38 AM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 61 Italy
Flora Corleone
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Hi Lavinia, I too have wondered about who Michael loved most, and have come to your same conclusions. To me, he was mainly attracted to Kay because of her "respectability" - the fact she could provide the perfect yankee façade he was looking for. I'm not saying Mike didn't feel any affection for her, he was obviously fond of Kay, but yes, this kind of love was more based on a "cold" caculation of what Kay had to offer than on a loving impulse. With Apollonia, Michael was definitely hit by the famous thunderbolt. And I don't think it was only about the physical beauty. She maybe represented the coming back to his very roots - whose he had tried to escape through all his life, but had come back to, in the end. She was the door to the world Michael knew he belonged to, and surely the perfect companion for the life he had chosen. So, I definitely think - and the book too states this - Mike had never loved someone as he did with Apollonia, and that's surely one of the resons (if not the main reason) for he came back to New York so embittered and cold-hearted. Ehhehehe, all this was to say that I love Apolonnia and *don't* like Key...Poor Key, I really don't know why she is so annoying...
"...Brucia la luna in cielo, e io brucio d'amore..."
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30501
07/06/05 08:59 AM
07/06/05 08:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,735
Lavinia from Italy
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Originally posted by Flora Corleone: Hi Lavinia, I too have wondered about who Michael loved most, and have come to your same conclusions. Ciao Flora, nice to read you!!! BTW, I 100% agree with your brilliant post! Originally posted by Flora Corleone: Ehhehehe, all this was to say that I love Apolonnia and *don't* like Key...Poor Key, I really don't know why she is so annoying... I wonder WHO does like her? AUGH!!!!!!! Al Pacino liked her!!! They have been told to have a liaison at the time the movie was being filmed...Luckily they split....I hated the sight of the two being together as a married couple in the film.....I would not have stomached it IN REAL LIFE!!!
I don't want realism. I want magic! Yes, yes, magic. I try to give that to people. I do misrepresent things. I don't tell the truth. I tell what ought to be truth (Blanche/A streetcar named desire)
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30508
07/06/05 12:32 PM
07/06/05 12:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468 With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso
Consigliere to the Stars
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Consigliere to the Stars
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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I don't think Michael was ever really "in love" with Kay as much as he was in love with the idea of Kay. As a younger man, I think she represented his rebelliousness against his family and particularly his father. By having a WASP non-Sicilian as a fiancee, he was making a very clear statement to the world that he was not a part of "the family business" and that he was not going to be a man like his father. The way he dumped her in New York just before he went to the hospital is not what someone "in love" would do.
Later, after Appoliania died and Michael was working for the family, he wanted a family, and Kay was convenient and still available, so I think he just took her. Of course Kay, about whom many of us have made unkind posts, knew or should have known exactly what she was getting herself into, and yet never missed the opportunity to complain to Mike about his career path.
As for pure, sensual, "hot" "in love," there's no question. Appolonia hands down.
"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"
"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."
"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30509
07/06/05 01:59 PM
07/06/05 01:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,211 Little Chicago
Tony Love
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Good topic!
When it comes to love, pure love, Michael loved Apollonia. When it came to other things, more practical uses for a spouse here in America, that's where Kay could fit in. Sure, he loved Kay in some sense, but she was more of a life partner (until the whole abortion thing later came into play) whereas Apollonia was someone Michael loved.
Apollonia was more of a lover. Kay was more of a partner and mother to Michael's children.
"Any American who is prepared to run for president should automatically, by definition, be disqualified from ever doing so"-Gore Vidal "Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth"-John Fitzgerald Kennedy "The reason the mainstream is thought of as a stream is because of its shallowness"-George Carlin
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30511
07/06/05 02:33 PM
07/06/05 02:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,854 Milky Way
Enzo Scifo
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Yes, until he fled to Sicilia.
Question: In the familiy tree, there is said Apollonia was only 16. Was marrying at that age normal in Sicilian culture? And dont forget Michael was already 27 at the time.
Question 2: What about Simonetta Stefanelli? How old is she now, did she act after GF, is she married, is she dead?
BTW, Michael really loved Kay, but he simply loved Appolonia more. After Apollonia died, Michael didnt love Kay anymore.
See, we can act as smart as we want, but at the end of the day, we still follow a guy who fucks himself with kebab skewers.
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30512
07/06/05 06:26 PM
07/06/05 06:26 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 770 UK
The Dr. who fixed Lucy
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I think we've all (and by all, I mean straight guys) have had / wished we'd had girls of both the Appollonia and Kay variety.
"Kay"-types: good-looking but not stunning, good personalities, long term / marriage prospects, can see settling down with them and living happily ever after.
"Appollonia"-types: stunning, breathtaking. Head over heals in love, can never think about anything else. Total lust etc. But then they get car-bombed / run off with better looking guy. Sexier but less reliable.
Joey ...
BANG BANG
... Saza!
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30513
07/06/05 06:37 PM
07/06/05 06:37 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 147 Oslo, Norway
Al.Neri
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I don't know, if I remember right, they are quite fond of each other after Sicily in the novel. In GFII it seems like Kay just becomes the mother of his children.
By the way, Appolonia is indeed beautiful. Really beautiful! Anybody with recent pics of the actress who played Appolonia?
Do you know who I am? I'm Moe Greene! I made my bones when you were going out with cheerleaders!
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30514
07/06/05 08:34 PM
07/06/05 08:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 61 Italy
Flora Corleone
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Of course Kay, about whom many of us have made unkind posts, knew or should have known exactly what she was getting herself into, and yet never missed the opportunity to complain to Mike about his career path.
Dontomasso, I think you hit the point about the reasons for I don't have a particular liking on Kay. She perfectly knew was she was getting herself into, Michael couldn't have fooled a 3 years old with all of his speeches about legitimacy and such. (c'mon!) She loved Mike, and wanted to marry him - all the rest were pale excuses she gave herself to find a way to justify this choice before her own conscience. I can understand this, and I felt bad for Kay at the beginning, but her attitude at the end of GFII (not to mention GFIII with pearls like: "I preferred you as a common mafia hood", "you became my horror" and such), really got on my nerves. What, in hell did she expect?
"...Brucia la luna in cielo, e io brucio d'amore..."
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30515
07/07/05 08:39 AM
07/07/05 08:39 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,735
Lavinia from Italy
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Originally posted by Flora Corleone: What, in hell did she expect? Maybe she hoped what many women hope. Marrying, raising a family, having a beautiful house, a garden, a couple of blonde blue eyed children and possibly a golden retriver. Ok, I totally agree (except for the dog thing, 'cause everyone here knows I am a cat oriented person...not that I don't like dogs, but you know..... ), but.... KAY....WHY DID YOU MARRY A DARK HAIRED DARK EYED SICILIAN MAFIOSO, THEN???????
I don't want realism. I want magic! Yes, yes, magic. I try to give that to people. I do misrepresent things. I don't tell the truth. I tell what ought to be truth (Blanche/A streetcar named desire)
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30517
07/07/05 09:43 AM
07/07/05 09:43 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 27 Virginia Beach
Don of Dons
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
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Posts: 27
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I can understand this, and I felt bad for Kay at the beginning, but her attitude at the end of GFII (not to mention GFIII with pearls like: "I preferred you as a common mafia hood", "you became my horror" and such), really got on my nerves. What, in hell did she expect? exactly, when kay was there to meet the family at the wedding, micheal held nothing back. infact I was surprised to see how much he actually let her know at such an early point in time. she knew exactly what she was getting into.
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30518
07/07/05 10:07 AM
07/07/05 10:07 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,735
Lavinia from Italy
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Originally posted by Enzo Scifo: Question: In the familiy tree, there is said Apollonia was only 16. Was marrying at that age normal in Sicilian culture? Absolutely. Originally posted by Enzo Scifo: Question 2: What about Simonetta Stefanelli? How old is she now, did she act after GF, is she married, is she dead? She should be about 50. She married a very popular (here) actor, Michele (WOW, the power of a name!!!) Placido, but they divorced. They have three children. A daughter, Violante, is an actress hereself. As for Simonetta's career, after GF she acted in some mafia B-movies, nothing to be remembered. Originally posted by Enzo Scifo: After Apollonia died, Michael didnt love Kay anymore. Can't see the connection.
I don't want realism. I want magic! Yes, yes, magic. I try to give that to people. I do misrepresent things. I don't tell the truth. I tell what ought to be truth (Blanche/A streetcar named desire)
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30519
07/07/05 02:09 PM
07/07/05 02:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 61 Italy
Flora Corleone
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WHY DID YOU MARRY A DARK HAIRED DARK EYED SICILIAN MAFIOSO, THEN??????? Because he was damn hot, what else? Ehmmm...ok, excuse me.. She married a very popular (here) actor, Michele (WOW, the power of a name!!!) Placido, but they divorced Holy cows! I didn't know she was Michele Placido's ex-wife! Whar have I been living? I think her daughter Violante has a slight resemblance to her (but Simonetta was more beautiful!
"...Brucia la luna in cielo, e io brucio d'amore..."
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30522
07/07/05 03:31 PM
07/07/05 03:31 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224
New Jersey
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Originally posted by Lavinia from Italy: ... Maybe Micheal loved Apollonia in a more immediate and instinctive way than he did for Kay. I don't know, maybe I'm biased by the fact that I don't like Kay?... I think he loved them equally but in different times of his life and in different ways. Let's remember that it was Kay who was his FIRST true love. Although we are priveleged to see that thunderbolt hit Michael when he first lays eyes on Appolonia, we do not know what the first meeting between Michael and Kay was like. Had Appolonia lived, it's true Kay would've been history. But it would be nice to think he still had a fondness and more adult, mature love for Kay even if he was no longer 'in love' with her as he had been with Appolonia and the Kay of his pre-Sicily life. And by the way, I'm so sick & tired of people who 'don't like' Kay. Apple
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30524
07/08/05 08:22 AM
07/08/05 08:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Originally posted by Lavinia from Italy: [QUOTE]...I'm sorry, Apple.... Apology accepted, Lavinia...however it doesn't make your (and the 'vast majority's) dislike of Kay any less ridiculous. If I were going to 'not like' a character because they were annoying, unpleasant and a pain in the ass...I would choose Fredo. But of course, everyone has their own special place in the story !! Apple
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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Re: Did Michael love Kay or Apollonia the most?
#30526
07/08/05 08:51 AM
07/08/05 08:51 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,224 New Jersey
AppleOnYa
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Originally posted by Lavinia from Italy: [QUOTE]...without elaborating a single concept to prove it is a masterpiece of tolerance. And, of course, of good manners! I don't really need to elaborate a concept to prove it. It's my (not the vast majority's) 'opinion' !! AppleOnYa (aka, Miss Manners)
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.
- THOMAS JEFFERSON
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