He said to Vitelli that he didn't want her to lose a father. What does that mean?

I've always felt that this scene was one of the first times that we see Mike take advantage of his family name and power. He was letting the father know that he was a wanted man by rival mob families, but at the same time he was letting him know that he was also a very powerful man from a very powerful family! Remember at first they spoke to Vitelli about how "hot" this girl was that they saw, not realizing it was her father. That was a huge insult to the father, and at that moment when they realized what they had said, Michael immedeatly knew that their lives were in jeopardy, so at that moment Michael used his talents to calm the father down, threaten him without really threatening him, and getting the father's approval to court his daughter. It is definately one of the first times that we see Michael's ability to handle a situation in the same manner that his father would have. Cool, calm, cunning and threatening!


Don Cardi

Yes, DC, I think this is a crucial moment in his "metamorphosis" from the "nice college boy" to the "Don-to-be". He had already killed, after all. Here he shows his ability in manipulating people. This was a good cause, though!

Was Vitelli connected to the Mob? Why did Mike's bodyguards feel threatened by this man?

Yes, it is a brilliant scene where Michael simultaneously uses his power and diffuses what could have been a dicey situation. Of course Vitelli ended up losing his daughter anyway.

Regardless if Vitelli was connected or not, it did not matter. Vitelli and his daughter's honor was at stake here. Remember this was Sicily, the old country, and to have one's honor disrepected could result in the death of the person who has shown disrespect. If somone's honor is disrepected and nothing is done about it, then that person will live in shame for the rest of their lives. Appolina and her family's honor was saved because of Michael's indirect threat to Vitelli and because he married her.


Don Cardi

To expand on Don Cardi's answer, in Sicily, the omerta does not just apply to the mafiosos. It applies to every single citizen of Sicily. Mario Puzo described it best in the book. No matter if you witnessed the rape or murder of your own child, the omerta stands. You saw nothing. You heard nothing. So if Vitelli had Mike killed, no one would say anything. Lucky for Mike, though, he was a Corleone.

Just to give you an idea of how seriously the Siclian take the honor of their women:

When visiting my realtives, we were all invited to a wedding. My uncle told us that the bride and groom had been living together before the wedding. We were a bit surprised, but they told us that it is acceptable because they will eventually marry. We asked what would happen if the man backed out of the marriage. We were told that it would never happen. We asked them to contemplate the unimaginable and let us know what would happen. They said that her father would kill the man if he backed out (and they said it rather matter-of-factly). We asked what would happen if she didn't have a father. They said that her uncle or brother would do it. We asked them to pretend that she had no family, and my relatives said that a neighbor would be happy to do it.

In that context, you can see what Michael was getting at when he felt that, by insulting his daughter's honor, he could be in mortal danger from Vitelli.

Mike didn't say anything bad about Appolonia in front of Vitelli. It was his bodyguards. Why did Mike stick his neck out for them?

well, SB, I don't know where in Sicily this wedding was held, but you must have spotted an exception, a very traditional family. Modern Sicily is generally far from the folkoristic and frankly outdated image people from abroad may have of its people and costumes. Sicilian women are free of doing what they want, they can divorce, have pre-marital intercourses, take the pill without much scandal. And of course, if a woman is left by her husband or fiancé it is very unlikely that a killing will be performed. Not more likely than in any other place in the world, at least. Kidding about Sicily and Sicilian old traditions is funny and Sicilians themselves like to do that, but reality is another thing. It's 2005 in Sicily too.

Mario Puzo explains in The Godfather, the novel, that Vitelli was a "friend of the friends" - a respectful term used by civilians, meaning associate of the mafia.

Is it still legal in Sicily to kill the wife if she ran away with another man?

ARE YOU JOKING???????

Sicily is part of Italy, a state of laws. If a man kills his wife he is sent to prison.

Let us keep in mind that we are talking about a scene in the movie that takes place in the 40's. So of course, back then the 'old' tradition of family honor and way of thinking would have applied.


Don Cardi

Well, this wedding took place in 1979 and nobody was joking. When I visited my relatives in 1989, my husband and I still had to chaperone my cousin and his fiancee because her parents wouldn't let her out of the house with him unescorted. The last time I visited was 2001, and I did notice that the young girls were allowed to go out in groups of boys and girls unchaperoned, but that one-to-one dating was still frowned upon. And my family lives about 30 minutes outside of Palermo, so they're not in some remote mountain town.

I was in Sicily in 1970 and back then things were fairly "modern" in Palermo, Taormina and the other cities, but in the interior it was still pretty traditional. We were told not even to look at women, and the use of the word "mafia" was also prohibited. It was referred to as "The Honored Society."

I think there were arests and a big breaking of Omerta in Italy in the late 80's or early 90's by some special prosecutor. I also seem to recall a number of people investigating the Honored Society now sleep with the fishes.

True enough. But it also showed, IMO, that Michael had a way to go before learning how to be a real Don. His father had always-- always-- taught never to make a threat. Michael's threat to Sr. Vitelli was unnecessary and gratuitous. Michael asserted his power in that scene (one of the best in the entire trilogy, IMO) by the imperial way he leaned back in his chair and ordered Fabrizio to translate for him--and then answering Vitelli before Fab translated. There was no need for him to threaten Vitelli. In fact, it would have been far more effective for Michael to let Vitelli find out from Don Tomassino, who Michael was. That would have shown Michael to be a guy who used his power subtly and sparingly--like a true Don.

IMO it was not so much a threat. What Michael did was identify himself as someone who had a price on his head. What he said was there were people who would pay a lot of money for the information he had given to Vitelli, and that if Vitelli went blabbing this, he would break the code of Omerta, and thus die. The alternative was his daughter would gain a husband. What Michael did was allow Vitelli in on his secret in exchange for permission to meet Appollonia. In other words he drew him into his own circle of honor.

According to the novel, after Michael, Calo, and Fabrizzio are seated in Vitelli's cafe, they ask him if he knows the girl that fits Appolonia's description.

Vitelli goes back inside and does not reappear, even after the three call for more wine.

Fabrizzzio goes inside, then comes back out, stating "Just as I thought, it's his daughter we were talking about and now he's in the back boiling up his blood to do us a mischief. The old bastard mentioned he has two sons, big tough lads that he has only to whistle up. Let's get going."

It was Vitelli's sons, I think, who were the source of their feeling threatened.
Puzo writes nothing that indicates that Vitelli is a "friend of the friends" himself.

Rather, Puzo writes that Vitelli intends to make some inquiries about Michael, as he "was not without his own contacts (italics mine) among the 'friends of the friends'."

i remember in the movie after vitelli went inside and micheal asked fabrizio to go get him, i remember him sayin somethin like oh no he has two strong sons or somethin close to that

I think you are referring to Giovanni Falcone and Paolo Borsellino, two heroic judges who (among other public servants and militaries) were murdered by the mafia in 1992. That year was in fact a turning point in the recent history of Sicily. For the first time huge crowds of people gathered in the streets to demonstrate AGAINST mafia and the mentality (omertà. BTW, if you want to spell it correctly, you must put an emphasis on the A) which supports the mafia system was somehow broken since then. It was a true revolution, something simply unthinkable before. There have been a lot of arrests and many mafia members cooperated with justice. The mafia had to reorganize itself. Currently the mafia seems to keep from murders and rather looks after its businness. It's a long way to defeat the mafia, of course. But if the first step is changing the mentality, the attitude towards mafia and beginning to consider the mafia as an enemy rather than an ally, well I think we are on the right road.

As for customs, especially sexual behaviour, well I must insist there has been a dramatic change in the last, say, 30-35 years and Sicily is not different at all from other Southern European regions. The old mentality can still survive as a background attitude (that's why the one-to-one dates may be still frowned upon) but more formally than substantially. We Italians are Mediterranean, we are Latins, not Swedish, after all! But please, stop thinking Sicily is a land where lupara has the last word (I'm talking to everybody in general, not specifically to you, DT ). I understand the old idea of Sicily being a savage and archaic land is more "romantic" and fits Puzo's books' depictions, so someone could be disappointed in realizing times have changed. But, trust me, nowadays "that" Sicily is more legend than truth.

hi i'm new here so don't bite my head off when i say...couldn't you take the scene at face value, and that michael just saw an opportunity to meet appollonia with the furore caused by fabrizio......you know he had just been hit by the thunderbolt!

Was there any possibility of Vitelli refusing to allow michael marry his daughter? I always wondered why Vitelli would allow his innocent daughter to be married off to a mobster (unless ofcourse he feared that michael would kill him otherwise).

I think Michael's proposal somehow honored the Vitellis. Plus there obviously was an implied threat too: Michael's position and name were threatening per se. The Corleones should have been known and respected quite well in Sicily too (that's why Michael was sent to Sicily, I believe). Marrying a Corleone would have escalate the Vitellis' prestige, recognition and power.

And also Michael showed such skill in that scene, speaking calmly, and eloquently, showing great respect but not grovelling, still showing that he too demanded respect. It's an extremely courteous but self assured speech which is all the more impressive to Vitelli coming as it does in English. It's clear by the time he says 'With all respect' that he's put on a good show and that Vitelli takes him seriously. I love the way Vitelli pulls his braces up onto his shoulders, as if suddenly they are businessmen conducting a meeting. From that moment on Michael is in.

I don't believe that it was an outright threat. I think that Michael mentioned who he was to Vitelli because it was obvious that he could no longer hide who he was once the encounter was made. I think that his speech to Vitelli was more to let him know that retribution would be swift and sure if he betrayed the Corleones. As said here, Vitelli also saw a better life for his daughter and all of his family if she could marry into such a family, and live in America. I wonder if Michael ever took care of her family after she died?

I never thought it was an outright threat either, in the sense of 'I am Michael Corleone and if you don't let me meet your daughter, I'm going to have you killed.'

He had just revealed his identity and reason for being in Italy in the first place...that information alone puts Vitelli, his sons and his entire family in danger. By laying this out and then expressing that his intentions toward Appolonia are honorable, he is actually offering an alliance and protection. That's my personal opinion.

You must admit that especially in those early days....Michael had the same style and way with words as his father!

Of course, little does Michael know that it will eventually be Fabrizio who will betray him, although initially meaning no physical harm to his wife.

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Lavinia the Sicilians are hotheaded because they are descended from us greeks

Yes, but Vito would have been even more subtle. He would have said something like "Don Tomassino is a very good friend of mine, ask him about me". And then Vitelli would have heard from Tomassino what a powerful man Vito really was. Vitelli would have been impressed, kind of like Woltz and Hagen: "Why didn't you say you work for Corleone?"

For maybe one twentiest part. Sicilians are a mix of so many ethnic groups. The fact that the islands of the Mediterranean sea (Malta, Sardegna) and Belgium are the parts of Europe that have been most ruled over by other countries.
But I'm now to tired to write something about the ethnic history of the people and nations around the Mediterranean sea.

You are right, they might not have used identical words. However, Michael definitely inherited that type of finesse from Vito.

Just imagine Fredo or Santino in a similar situation, wanting to meet a particular virtuous woman and having to get past her dad & big brothers to do it.

Maybe such a scene can be written into the tv series....

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