That's not what I said. What I did say was :

I never said those two players straight up for Zito. I just meant that the Mets could possibly include them in some kind of a deal.


Don Cardi

Wang for Floyd seems like a fair trade, except you gotta think the Yanks will be reluctant to give up any starting pitching unless Pavano comes back and is healthy, in which case they may prefer to trade him, which would also be a good deal from the Mets POV, I think.

I'd love to see the Mets dump Floyd and bring up Milledge.

Be-yoot-i-ful game today, huh? :rolleyes:

Now, you guys know that I've said on many occasions that I'm not that big a fan of any team except for the Nets, and if I'm in the mood to place a little wager I'll even bet against them if that's what I feel that the situation calls for.....

So this afternoon I happened to be "in the mood", and had the Mets ten times at even-6.

Ordnarily I wouldn't whine; I mean obviously, over the years of my membership here, I've made loads of bets that I haven't mentioned, and there have been other brutal losses and my share of "miracle wins" along the way, as well as simple "regular" wins and losses also (Don't you prefer losing a game 6-0 or something than losing a game like this when you have money on the line?).

I mention all of this in this thread, because JL’s -17 in Yahoo for Wagner’s brilliant piece of work and DC’s potential plus 30-something turning into a sad +14 for the Mets PS in the Salary Cap Game notwithstanding, I want you two guys to know that I was rooting for you today.

So yes…..fantasy scores take preference over my “rooting” interest as a fan in a particular team, but when it come to having money on the line, fantasy scores absolutely take a back seat to that.

This is a good spot to rant some more about other things that leave me dazed and confused about the way baseball is played today.

Players are stronger and in better physical shape. Training methods are supposedly better and nutrition is better.

So why is it in the 50's and 60's and into the early 70's SPs started 38-42 times a year in a four man rotation and routinely pitched 280-300 innings a year with 18-20 or more complete games, and today can only start every five days, pitch only 220 innings or so, and almost never complete a game....?

And yet there seem to be even more arm injuries than ever? :rolleyes:

Willie Randolph lost the game for them today. His managing was very questionable.

I have to agree with Plaw here. What is it about today's starting pitchers that they can only go 6 or 7 innings, only throw 100 - 110 pitches which is considered high, and have to sometimes get as much as 5 days rest in between starts?

Pedro was pitching a gem today and gets pulled. OK, I'll give in to the managers decision to take him out. Don't agree with this strategy all the time, but I'll concede here and give it to Randolph.

So now he puts Sanchez in the game, who pitches a beautiful inning. Then, for reasons that I cannot understand, he takes him out in the ninth and goes to Billy Wagner. Granted that Wagner is being paid all this money and he's the Mets go to guy in the clutch, but due to the current situation that the Mets pitching staff is in, it is not a dire need to get Wagner some more work. The guy came in on Friday night and did a good job and closed out the Yankees.

But now you have Sanchez who's well rested and pitches a really good inning. So why take him out?

Ok, so Randolph does take him out. Now Wagner is looking like shit after a few batters, and then walks in a run. But does Randolph go out to the mound and take him out? No, he lets him attempt to pitch to Bernie Williams, but Wagner hits him with the first pitch and bases loaded! Now Willie Randolph decides enough is enough? A little to late there Willie, the damage has already been done. A 4 - 0 lead has just been blown, due to several poor managing decisions that you have made with your pitchers over the last 2 and maybe even 3 innings!

I always have said that when it comes to baseball, a manager can win or lose about 10 to 15 games a year for the team by the late inning decisions that he makes.

Willie just lost one for the Mets.


Don Cardi

Never say die! Anyone stay up to watch the whole game last night?


They're not called the Amazing Mets for nothing!


Don Cardi

They cost me a night's sleep. I went to bed at 8-5 because I had to get up at 4AM this morning. My friend wakes me up and tells me they tied it at 8. I stayed up for the entire 16 innings, and got about 3 hours sleep.

And another late inning comback won with a walkoff hit in the bottom of the ninth!

Never turn them off if they are losing.

This team is just so exciting.


Don Cardi

I just heard on M & TMD that Nady had an emergency appendectomy this morning, and the Mets called up Milledge.

Nady is supposed to miss 3-4 weeks, and Milledge is expected to play every day in right.

It was just about this time (a little earlier, actually) that the Mets called up Strawberry in 1983, and that era began.

Milledge made his debut last night in RF, batted 8th, and went 1-4 with a double. Left three runners on base, though.

Another newbie, El Duque, made his Mets' debut on Sunday.

He got the win, pitching 5 innings and allowing 3 runs on 5 hits while striking out 7 and walking 3.

He'll need to do better; if that's gonna be his average performance, I don't think that will cut it.

Five innings means probably using three relievers. With seemingly only Pedro good for 7 innings per start, their bullpen is gonna be burned out by July.

The third newest Met, Cuban import Alay Soler, made his second start last night.

His two starts so far look like this:

Not good.....

I like the Matsui trade.

The Mets got rid of a guy who can't play, and in Eli Marrero picked up someone who can definitely help off the bench.

He can catch, play first, and all three outfield positions, plus hit with a little power.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerStats?categoryId=85798

On another note, El Duque's record looks a lot better after his last start:

What a road trip so far. El Duque, Soler, and today they spanked the shit out of Arizona.

My thinking is this. Going into this road trip and basically up until All Star Break, they will have played 19 of their next 26 games on the road. So far they are 6 - 1 with 19 more games to play out of those 26. If they can play around .500 ball over the next 19 games, they should be in really great shape for the second half of the season.

Don Cardi

Right now the team is scary. No more one run wins in the last at bat. Now it's blow them out of the water early, and cruise the rest of the game.

I'm was just listening to Joe Benigno on WFAN, and a caller suggested the following trade:

Milledge & Pelfrey to the Marlins for Willis & Cabrera.

I'd make this deal in about a half a second if I could, yet Benigno and whoever is sidekick is right now that does the updates actually were hemming and hawing about it, and unsure about whether they would do it or not.

Am I nuts, or are they?

What is there to think about? Two proven major leaguers and two of the best young players in the game for two unproven rookies?

Hell, if necessary I'd even throw in Cliff Floyd to make a spot for Cabrera in the outfield, and a couple of more prospects besides.

If the Mets could make that deal and then pick up a decent everyday second baseman, they'd be the best team in baseball.

They might even be the best team in baseball without a decent everyday second baseman if they could make that deal.

I have been saying that the Mets need to keep Lastings Milledge, he is young, can be the future with this team, and I don't like giving away the future for the now. Especiall when I see a team that IMO, is good enough to make a run this year.

However when looking at a trade like this one, I would have to be honest and tell you that I make that deal. These two proven players for two unproven rookies? Done deal. But what makes me even more willing to make this trade is that while you are giving up a young 'prospect' in Milledge, you are getting back a young, pretty much proven ballplayer in Cabrera. He's only 23 years old and has put up and maintained some nice numbers. What has he averaged, 30 HR's a year in his three year career? And has a lifetime avg. of around .300!

And as far as Dontrell and Pelfry go, well that part of the deal shouldn't even be given a second thought. We really know absolutely nothing about Pelfry. We do know that Willis can help us right now, and yet is still young enough to help us in the future.

By swapping these players, the Mets are not giving up their future because they are getting two YOUNG & PROVEN players that will make them that much better right now, and also in the future.


If I'm Omar Manaya, I make the deal.


Don Cardi

In Cabrera'a rookie year - 2003 - he hit .268 with 12 homers and 62 RBIs in 87 games. He was 23 years old, BTW, this past April.

The last two years he's hit .294 and .323, with 66 homers and 226 driven in, along with 207 runs scored.

If Milledge is even anywhere near those kind of numbers, Met fans should be thrilled.

Willis, who turned 24 this past January, has played almost three full seasons heading into this one, averaging 15-9, and 198 IPs with an E.R.A. of 3.27.

If Pelfrey is anywhere near that good, Mets fans should be thrilled.

A no brainer.

I agree. That's a trade the Mets have to make. I can't see the Marlins doing that though. From what I heard on WFAN, the Marlins have been offered multiple prospects from other teams just for Willis. I think he'll end up in L.A. with the Dodgers if he's traded.

My authentic Beltran road jersey.

I'll be at Shea tomorrow night to welcome home the Mets.

Glad you're enjoying him, Lou.

No, I'm just teasing you - I can't actually root for him, but it's good to see he's done y'all well. I won't be a bad sport about it.

I just had to respond after seeing you post a pic of a new jersey and then talk about going to a game...you've got great spirit.

If you take pics there, I'd love for you to post them - I always enjoy ballpark photos of any kind, and we don't get to see many fan pics here at the BB, so that'd be cool. Hope you have fun!

I may bring the camera since Shea is on its last years. I want to have have some good pictures before it's gone.

Great idea - wish I was old enough to know to take some pics at the Astrodome back when they still played there.

What's up with Heilmann, do you think?

If he's gonna be ineffective, the bullpen has a problem.

I think his biggest problem is he doesn't want to be bullpen, and now he knows the Mets have no intention of ever moving him back into the rotation no matter what.

So you're saying it's mental then?

In that case, where do the Mets go with him from here? Trade him to a team that will use him as a starter?

Everyone needs starting pitching; Here are three deals I just thought of with teams that can replace their second baseman:

To the Dodgers for Kent
To Pittsburgh for Castillo
To Texas for Kinsler or DeRosa

It's at least partially mental. The guy does not want to be a relief pitcher, and he sees the Mets bringing guys up and trading for Hernandez, without giving him a chance. The Mets needed a starter coming out of spring training, and he pitched almost perfect baseball the entire spring. Then they gave the job to Bannister. I've heard that his agent has asked, not demanded, that the Mets look into trading him to a team looking for a starter.

See addition to my post above

To Atlanta for Giles
To Washington for Vidro

To Florida with Milledge or Pelfrey for Willis or Cabrera

With someone else to the Yankees - not sure who - for Cano.

I have no idea what his trade value would even be right now. He probably had more value coming out of spring training.

Unfortunately from the Mets POV, you're probably right about that.

I guess it's really a two-part problem now, unless you just want to stick with him and figure he'll straighten himself out:

1) Who can they get for him that would help the team, and
2) What role do you use him in if you don't trade him?