I'm just going by their average number of FPs per start.

Johnson's is higher.

But, as I said before....

If we don't have a common ground for deciding on what makes one player more valuable than another in this, then it's all subjective and this this whole exercise is pointless.

You try and prove to me that Smoltz is better, so you give me his total points.

Sure, but he's made a lot more starts.

The you give me his stats for the last month.

I try and prove that Johnson is better, so I give yoou his average per start for the whole year.

One thing that you two guys consistently ignore, though, is what I call "Replacement Value".

DB had the classic example this year with Ryan Howard.

I don't care how many points he had - he was basically usless to DB because there was nowhere for him to play.

So even if DB traded Howard and his 380 points for a guy who had only scored 300 points all season, but that guy was gonna replace someone else fr DB who scored even less, then it was a good deal for DB.

First you complain about how much I gave up to get Dye, when you felt I offered less for Dunn. Now I got Dye for "basically nothing". :rolleyes: [/b][/quote]Now you're just twisting my words and reading things into them that I never said.

I felt you offered less for Dunn because IMO Johnson is having a better season.

Like I said, that's just my opinion because we don't have a common ground for evaluating players.

But where did I "complain about how muuch you gave up to get Dye"?

You got Dye for basically nothing (to you) and you would've gotten Dunn for basically nothing.

I think I made the reason pretty clear there:

Before the trade you had 6 solid starters: Carpenter, Weaver, Zito, Smoltz, Oswalt, and Johnson.

We don’t even need Hhernandez.

With 41 starts left, and each SP with about 10-11 starts left this season, the 6 of them were more than enough to start those 41 games and still give you plenty of room to maneuver for favorable match-ups, home games, etc.

Now, without Johnson (or without Smoltz, as the case may have been), you still have 5 solid starters.

That’s still enough to make those 41 starts and give you plenty of room to maneuver for favorable match-ups, home games, etc.

So removing either pitcher from your mix figured to cost you nothing in points.

Depending on what you think having Dunn or Dye to replace whoever is worth - .50 PPG, .75 PPG, 1.0 PPG – times the 60 or so games left is what you gain on this trade.

And from TM’s POV it’s a lousy trade for him because the points you gain cannot – I don’t think – be offset by the points he will gain by adding Johnson to his rotation.

And that assumes that on net TM will even gain points on the deal.

What he loses by losing Dye may not even be offset by his gain from adding Smoltz.

So the only thing we can state here pretty much with certainty is that this trade will help JL.