I don't consider a start of 6 IPs in which a guys allows 4 ERs, 7 baserunners, and 1 HBP to be anything even close to a "normal outing" these days.

Considering that going yesterday's games our starters (after their very rocky beginning; see my post above) were averaging close to 6 FPPG, there's no way you can fairly describe a +1 point start as "normal".

And he didn't lose because his "offense didn't get the job done"

Requirng your offense to score 5 runs in 6 innings, or an average of 7.5 runs per 9 innings is hardly what I would call giving "STL every opportunity, having only given up 4 ERs (in 6 IPs)"

Requring that of your teams offense is not giving your team every chance to win

To put it another way....

How may games to you think the average team wins when their starter or pitching staff has an E.R.A of 6.00?

I'd be very surprised if a team wins more than 25-30% of the time when giving up 6 runs in a game.

So Zambrano (and you) weren't penalized because the offense didn't produce.

The offense was required to produce at the rate of 7.5 runs per game, which is a lot to ask of any offense.

Zambrano (and you) were penalized because Zambrano's start gave the Cubs practically no chance to win.

Also, please remember that if this game had been scored using the ESPN system, you would have gotten 6 more points because the ESPN system doesn’t deduct points when a SP is charged with a loss, as this system does.

Actually, the only reason you did as well as +1 was Zambrano’s 8 strikeouts, which IMO is the weakest part of our pitcher’s scoring system.

All strikeouts do is make power pitchers more valuable in this game, which, in reality, is not necessarily the case.

As far as Timlin and his +2 goes….

It could be argued that what he did for his team last night was more valuable than what Zambrano did for his.

Timlin came into a game that the Red Sox were losing 8-1 and held the other team in check, giving the Sox a chance to eventually come back (which they did) and have a chance (albeit a small one) to actually win the game.

And had his game been scored by ESPN and you had the Boston PS last night, you’d be overjoyed at his +2 in one winning, since that helped reduce the horrible score by the starter and make it at least slightly more respectable.

(And JL.....Why do you hate to defend the scoring system? That one hurt. If the system is right, it's right; if it's not, it's not. It shouldn't "hurt" you to defend it when it is.)