Hey everyone,

Tom Hagen: To me a very important person in the GF. He brings sphere to it. I'm not sure why but he simply adds and adds. Some things about his character in the script though:

First of all, what happened to him. Between GF I en II he died and in three it is mentioned that he is no longer with us anymore. True, and his son becomes a priest. We know that but what actually happend during the rest of his life after GFII? Is it because the book kind of leaves it open, then the movie becomes a bit vage on this subject?

Secondly, I know that Michael always respected Tom Hagen, he says so in GF II eventhough he taken him off the part of consigliere. But socially he is not very nice to Tom. He trusts him, but somehow you get the feeling that Michael sorta looked down on him or didnt feel the need to tell him everything. Let's put it this way: The way Michael speaks of Tom in GF III is so loving, asif they grew together between GFII and Tom's death. But we never knew about that.

Any thoughts on this?

CCDevlin

As has been noted many times on these boards: Paramount would not meet Robert Duvall's payment terms to appear in GFIII. So, in GFIII, Michael mentions that Hagen died. He never identifies the cause of death.
You are right about the dichotomy in how Michael speaks fondly and respectfully of Hagen in GFII, and treats him badly. Michael played Hagen like a violin. Hagen was Sonny's contemporary, not Michael's. Sonny, not Michael, brought him into the family. Vito, not Michael, chose him as consigliere. So, Hagen was always more than a little unsure of where he stood with Michael, especially after Michael told him in GF: "You're out, Tom."
At the beginning of GFII, we see that Michael deliberately excluded Hagen from his most sensitive dealings with Roth. But, after the attack on Tahoe, Michael needed him to look after his family because, whatever else, Hagen was loyal, and at that point, Michael couldn't be sure of anyone else's loyalty. So he made that wonderful speech about how he loves Tom, always regarded him as a brother, etc. Hagen practically collapsed with relief. But, as soon as Michael returned from Havana, he no longer had to depend on Hagen, and was abusive toward him.

yes exactly. He was pretty much fed up with Tom's carefull aproaches the minute he came back. I also don't recall Michael thanking Tom for looking after his family. And he is also bugging Tom about his job offerings. The one in Las Vegas that he got. Michael practicly says...if you're not with us on this you can take your wife and mistress and get the hell out of here. So he is saying "I dont need you anymore" But in GFIII he speaks of Hagen with angels on his tongue. So what is that...the hypocrisy or something happened inbetween part II en III which is perhaps the tempered and wizer approach to life that Michael has grown into by that time?

CCDevlin

Welcome CC,

Check out this link:
Tome and Michael
It is an old discussion about this topic. I agree that there is more to that Tom/Mike thing that wasn't examined in the films. Maybe it was going to be, but got edited and some of it still made it into the film.

Ciao.

Hello Cross De Lene, thanx for the link. I'm at work now but will visit the link when I get home.

That one liner in your signature is great by the way.

I always thought that quote should be in the GF films some where. It just sounds like Mike or Vito.

Too bad about Ajax yesterday - very close though.

Thanx again Cross De Lene now that I've read the thread. Im pretty new to this board and its very weird to read people thinking about the same detailed stuf about a movie, as I do. I also see now that my topics should be more unique, though I thaught they were already

yes, to bad about Ajax last night. My team is PSV though so tonight is my night for that matter. I take it you're eather Dutch or a European footall lover who watches all the matches in the CL.

Peace

CCDevlin

A while back, I stated Now I have evidence. Thanks to Don Giorgio Luigi Gambino and his posting of the GFII script: Alternate script for Part II
After Tom is dismissed from the meeting with Johnny Ola, Tom says, I don't think they even filmed this dialogue since it's not in the deleted scenes options.
That explains a lot! Also, Mike probably wasn't happy that Tom and Sonny's widow Sandra were screwing around - betraying Sonny's memory.