No rotation, right?

In other words, if the guy with the first pick because he's in last place makes a claim on Tuesday and is awarded the player on Thursday, he still keeps his number one priority, right?

Or does he go to the bottom for the rest of that week with everyone else moving up a notch, and then if he's still in last place at the start of the new week go back to the top priority spot?
I gave it careful thought.

I gave it careful thought. [/b][/quote]I was just looking over the league and that exact thought came to mind.

How does it work now? If the last place team puts in for a player on Monday and gets his pick, and then on tuesday he and the next to last place team put in for the same player, does the next to last place team get that player because the last place team got a player on monday? Or does the last place team also get another player on Tuesday because he is #1 in the waiver draft?


Don Cardi

This is what it says in the change waiver order screen :

The order you enter here will override any default selections you made during registration, but will only remain valid until the next claim is processed in your league.


Does that mean if IceMan gets the first pick this week in the draft, puts in for a player on Monday and gets his player on Wednesday, and on Tuesday both DMC and IceMan put in for the same player, that the league automatically awards the next pick to DMC on Thursday even if IceMan puts in for same player that DMC did?

That is how I am interpreting this. Anyone else?


Don Cardi

The way it works now is the guy with the highest priority is awarded the player when there is more than one claim.

Even if he is the only one claiming that player, as soon as he is awarded the player he goes to the bottom of the priority list, and everyone else moves up one spot.

Where the guy is in the standings, the way it is now, has no bearing on his waiver priority.

The waiver priority was set by Yahoo at the start of the season to reflect the reverse order of the draft, and the way it stands today reflects what has happened so far with respect to waiver claims.

In my opinion, altho as I said I don't think you should change the rules in the middle of the game, if you are gonna do it this way, the guy in last place should always have first choice at a waived player, no rotation, even if he is awarded more than one waiver claim the same week.

Just as they do it in real life.

The way I interpret this is that if you reset the priority, they will still keep the rotation system in effect, since they don't know if your resetting it is a "one time only" thing, or not.

So if you make Iceman #1 and he claims a player, I think he will go to the bottom and everyone else will move up, so you will have to reset the priorities every time a waiver claim is processed.

But you can just wait and see what happens the next time there's a waiver claim, if there ever even is one.

I gave it careful thought. [/b][/quote]I was just looking over the league and that exact thought came to mind.

How does it work now? If the last place team puts in for a player on Monday and gets his pick, and then on tuesday he and the next to last place team put in for the same player, does the next to last place team get that player because the last place team got a player on monday? Or does the last place team also get another player on Tuesday because he is #1 in the waiver draft?


Don Cardi [/b][/quote]That is a very good question there DC cause I put in for a player that is suppose to clear waivers on Monday.


I guess we'll just have to wait & see.

I'm just gonna post my 2c here, even though I have nothing to do with this league...

If the last-place team gets first waiver priority for the week, and that person acquires someone on waivers:

1) ...and beat someone else who wanted the same particular free agent, then that team should be set to the end of the waiver wire priority list for that week.

2) ...and was the only one to choose a particular free agent, should regain his 1st waiver priority status.

I believe that's how it's always worked in all sports/leagues, and that's how you should do it here.

I see no reason why the last-place team should get 7 days of potentially stealing free agents from the rest of the league. He should "win" over another, and then drop down to the end - and/or - acquire a free agent on his own without being penalized his priority status.

First of all, you're calling them "free agents", and I want to make sure that you understand the difference between claiming a free agent and claiming a guy from waivers.

A free agent is a player who has been dropped (or never even drafted in the first place) and has gone through the two day waiver period without being claimed.

If he is claimed within the two day period, he is claimed from waivers, and the waiver priority of the team making the claim changes.

If he is claimed after the two days, then he's a free agent.

Free agents go first-come, first-served. No one's waiver priority is changed by claiming a FA.

The purpose of the two day waiver period, obviously, is to give the person with the highest priority the first shot - all by himself - at a newly available player.

If he doesn't take that shot within two days, then the player is fair game to whoever grabs him first.

And BTW, the commissioner has the option of setting the waiver period.

In football, DB set it at two days. That seemed reasonable to me - our league was active enough that you had to figure everyone was visiting the site at least every two days and had the opportunity to claim anyone put on waivers - and I used two days for our basketball league as well.

I think that's the Yahoo default, as well.

As far as your idea goes.....

Yahoo doesn't inform the commissioner when someone is claimed from waivers, since that would give the commissioner an unfair advantage (If someone became available he could wait to see if he was claimed on waivers by someone else before wasting a waiver priority to claim the guy himself}.

So if we start the week off, say, with Iceman having the #1 priority and two guys become available on Tuesday and IM claims them both, this is what will happen, assuming we are interpreting the policy that DC asked about above correctly:

Yahoo will award IM the claim for the guy he wants the most (presuming that he indicates that). If not, Yahoo will award him the guy he claimed first. This will happen regardless of how many other people claim that guy.

But for the second claim, unless there is no one else claiming that player, Yahoo will award him to the claimant with the next highest priority.

So, if we let Yahoo handle the process, your idea will, de facto, be the way it's done.

If, however, it is our desire that the the person in last place always have the first shot at waiver pickups - which, I believe, is the way that all of the sports do it in real life - there's an easy way around the way that Yahoo will do it:

First of all, the multiple claims would have to be during the same two-day period.

If the guy in last place claims a guy on Tuesday, is awarded that guy on Thursday, and claims another guy from waivers on Saturday, the commissioner has time to reset the waiver priorities manually, so there's no problem there in bypassing the Yahoo system.

But to bypass Yahoo, if the person on last place claims someone off waivers, all he has to do is post here and tell us that he did.

This will alert everyone else not to bother to claim him as well, and if another player becomes available within the two days and he posts the fact that he claimed that guy as as well, if someone else claims the same guy and is awarded that claim by Yahoo, then DC can simply take him off that guy's team and add him to IM's team manually.

I don't know if I explained this very well, so if you have any questions......

And BTW, JG.....

I wish you had stuck your .02 in on something important here, like what to do with the two inactive teams.

I get the feeling that our commissioner doesn't like to listen to my ideas just because they're coming from me ( :p ), and I have a feeling that had you expressed an opinion on the doormant teams it would've agreed with mine.

Standings as of January 2nd 2006

The waiver order has been changed according to the standings. This waiver order stays in effect until next Monday when the new standings are posted.


The whole idea of using a website is for the site itself to take care of those things. No one should be required to post here on who they picked up. That information is available on the Fantasy Hockey Site. And everyone should be logging onto the site to keep up with things.

I am going to assume that once I re-set the waiver order today, and DMC puts in for a player A on waivers today, and gets palyer A on Wednesday, and then both IceMan and DMC happen to both put in for player B on Tuesday, then ICEMAN will be awarded player B on Thursday being that DMC already got his first player awarded the day before. Even if I re-set the order, it should be automatic by Yahoo that if DMC already got his first claim and then 3 of us happen to put in for a second claim of the same player the next day, the next team in that order should automatically get him. That's the way it works now and just because I reset the order does not mean that it will no longer work that way.

In other words just because DMC happens to have the first pick in the order, it does not mean that he automatically keeps getting the first pick everyday. It should automatically, by Yahoo, have to go through the order.

Don Cardi

I'm not sure I understand what you just said, so answer this question:

Is it your desire that the person in last place have the first waiver pick at the start of the week, but as soon as he make a successful claim, he then goes to the bottom of the list and everyone moves up a notch

or

Do you want the person in last place to have the first pick of players put on waivers throughout the week that he is in last place, even if he already made a successful claim earlier in the week?

I think that the way it works and has worked throughout the year so far is that the person who has the first waiver pick and makes a successful pick then moves down to the bottom of the list and everyone moves up a notch. And just because the waiver order is changed, that procedure should not change. So it should still be that the person who successfully gets his first waiver pick in the waiver pool should then move to the bottom of the list and everyone else should move up a notch. That's the way it works in every other fantasy league that I play in and how it should also work on this site. I know that it is automatic on the NFL.com site that I play on.

The funny thing, and not that it has any bearing on how the waiver order works, is that if you look at the WAIVER list there are currently only 4 players still on waivers.


Don Cardi

Doing it that way kind of half-defeats the purpose of giving the person in last place the first shot at a player on waivers.

Because if DMC claims someone tomorrow he will get the guy automatically, and if better players become available later in the week, he will now have the last priority instead of the first.

You could reset the order after he makes a successful claim and keep him first, but you still need to account for a situation in which he claims a player on Tuesday, and then on Wednesday, while his Tuesday claim is still pending, claims someone else and you don't know about his first claim.

Hence my suggestion that he post the fact that he was making these claims.

If it's your intention that the person in last place have the first waiver pick only once each week, then leave it the way it is - just change the priority order once, at the beginning of each week - although, as I say, I think that half-defeats the purpose of doing this in the first place.

That's because the two day waiver period for all of the players from the dead teams is over, so everyone not selected is now a free agent.

The four players still on waivers are as a result of the four transactions made on 12/30.

The last four transactions that you see on the transaction log were waiver claims made on 12/30, and did not become "official" until today, 1/2, two days later.

Now that they are official, the four players remain on waivers until 1/4. If no one claims them, then on 1/4 they will become free agents.

It doesn't half defeat the purpose. It gives the last place team the first shot at the best available player on waivers. And if they pick and get that player, they have gotten the best player available on waivers at the time. Now if I happen to cut a player the day after DMC is awarded his pick, then why should he then get first crack at another good player in the same week?

What you are suggesting is that after the last place team gets their first pick, then i should reset the waiver order so that he continually gets the first pick all week long. I don't believe that the last palce team should be ableto get first crack day after day at evey player on waivers.

The waiver order will be reset every Monday based on the standings. The team in last place will get the first pick for that week from the waiver wire, then move to the bottom allowing the next team to get thier desired pick.

You've balked that my releasing all of those players last week to the waiver list was unfair, and yet here you are suggesting that the last place team get a chance everyday of picking up the best player everytime they claim someone in that week. I think that allowing the last place team to get the 1st pick if they make a claim everyday of that week is way more unfair then my making when I made all of those players available last week to the league.

For instance right now there are 4 players on the waiver list. According to the way that you suggest doing the waiver order and resetting it, DMC would actually get all four of those player if he put in 4 claims.

I see no reason why the last-place team should get 7 days of potentially stealing players on waivers from the rest of the league. He should get the first pick, and then drop down to the end.


The waiver order will be reset every Monday according to the standings.

Don Cardi

Well, that's the way they do it in real life.

Anyway, do it any way you want. I don't think it makes much difference because we hardly have any waiver claims to begin with.

The ones we have pending now are the residue of the waiver claims from the dead teams. I don't think we had many, if any, waiver claims all season prior to that, and I doubt if we'll have many going forward once the dust clears.

I just wanted to make sure that we all understood what the difference was and how it would work.

My bad for using the wrong words. Of course I know the difference, I just wasn't thinking.

You make an interesting point about a "better player becoming available later in the week," but I don't think that should matter if someone already beat someone else out of a pick. Que sera sera, there is a luck factor involved. A manager should consider picking up waivers carefully and thoughtfully anyway, knowing that his priority will change. Cardi's way (the default way) is standard, and should result in the least intervention. Successful fantasy players need to pay attention. Waiver claims should be fairly rare going forward anyway, unless you dump another team.

Some limmericks to (I hope) lighten the mood.

Don Pelosi, he started this this biz
He claimed nobody; Gee, what a whiz
But I'd still like to know
And I wish he would show
So we all know just who this guy is

DMC made very bad goof
And then he said "I'll stay aloof"
"I made quite a mistake"
"I should jump in the lake"
"So I don't see PL hit the roof"

Now, Just Lou just sat back in his seat
He did not get involved in this heat
He said "What do I care?"
"Fair or unfair?"
"I have a team you can't beat"

For Iceman, it's strictly for fun
Doesn't care if he's not Number One
He claimed four guys on waivers
Thought they'd all be his savers
Didn't realize he should have got none

DC is a nice guy, he'll meetcha'
At a restaurant he'll happily seatcha'
But I wish he'd expose
The logic he chose
In deciding to not claim Demitra

In Fantasy Plaw's no fish
Plays to win, not for fun, that's his dish
But you wouldn't be wrong
Thinking he sings this song:
"I think I should be this game's commish"

Yeah, but if the guy's first waiver pick is uncontested - even if he didn't "beat someone else out of a pick" - he still loses his first spot, and if there's a player that becomes available later in the week which he claims along with someone else, he can't win the claim. Certainly always a possibility.

---

Well, you know......

With you, I'm never sure :p

J-G, well he's one who lurks
Got some fun out of watching these jerks
Then he ofered opinions
To all of his minions
Too late, though, for these screwed up works.

There once was a man named Plaw,
Who wouldn't stop complaining even when asked as a favor,
He broke all our balls,
because he was dying to be the commish,
And if he keeps it up his team might be next on the waiver.
:p





Don Cardi

Are you sure about that? In football this season I chose someone uncontested off waivers, and I don't think my waiver priority changed... nor should it have, because in a sense he became a free agent at that moment.

Actually, no, I'm not sure.

That's a good point, though, and would change my thinking about whether or not the guy in last place should keep his waiver priority after making a successful claim.

If it's a contested claim, then I think he should go to the bottom. If it's uncontested, then he should remain at the top.

Lemme see what I can find out.

Not only are you a lousy commissioner, you're a lousy poet, too. :p

Are you sure about that? In football this season I chose someone uncontested off waivers, and I don't think my waiver priority changed... nor should it have, because in a sense he became a free agent at that moment. [/b][/quote]Exactly Geoff. That is why there are outright free agents and then Waiver players. If a player on waivers is not claimed after two days of being on the list, he becomes a free agent. And if he is then picked up as a free agent the waiver order is not affected. If while he is on the waiver list he is claimed by one team, uncontested for two days, he has now cleared waivers and in essence is picked up as a free agent. And the waiver order is still not affected.
If a player on waivers is claimed by two or more teams while on waivers, then the waiver order is implemented, and the team that ranks highest in the waiver order gets that player and only then is that teams positioning in that waiver order affected.

At least that is how it works in my fantasy football league.


Don Cardi

Cardi's got it right I believe - that's how I've seen it work over the years...

Not only are you a lousy commissioner, you're a lousy poet, too. :p [/b][/quote]You should have started your own league if you think that you could do a better job as the commissioner! Oh, that's right, I forgot, you don't know anything about Hockey.

Maybe you should change the name of your team from Plaws Left Wingers to Plaws Crying Towels.

Let's see :

Plaw is the best commissioner.
Plaw is the best player.
Plaw is the best speller.
Plaw is the best writer.
Plaw is the best debater.
Plaw has the best ideas
Plaws way is the way that it should be done.

I love me, who do you love? :p


Don Cardi

In the yahoo "Help" section they don't make a distinction between an uncontested waiver claim and a contested one.

They just say that after a successful waiver claim, the winning manager goes to the bottom of the list and everyone moves up a notch.

So I wrote to them asking them if there's a distinction.

I'm gonna guess here, though, that JG and DC are wrong, because there is a logic to having the claim count against he guy'd priority, even if it is uncontested.

Even if the claim is uncontested, it should count against the guy's waiver priority, because if he's first on the list, he's guaranteeing that he gets the player, since he doesn't know that no one else is gonna put in a claim also.

If he didn't want to risk his waiver priorty, he could wait the two days and hope that he can get the guy as a free agent.

You can write all the e-mails that you want to Yahoo.

I am the commissioner, the rest of the players, with the exception of you, agreed that this is how it's going to be done, so this is how it's going to be done.



Don Cardi

True, although DB does as good a job as I do

True in some games, not true in others, certainly not true in this one

Well, I think I'd hold my own in a spelling bee against other members, but I doubt if I'm the "best" speller here.

Hard to say. Very subjective. I certainly consider myself one of the best, but there are other members who I think also write quite well

Um, yes. I think I'm the best debater. That doesn't mean I'm necessarily always right, I just think I do the best job of debating.

The best ideas about what? Fantasy sports? Well, I certainly think that I think things through more carefully than anyone else. I don't know if that makes my ideas the "best", but I certainly think that're the best reasoned.

Kinda the same as the above, isn't it?

We're not wrong - at least so far as how it's been working since we've started playing draft leagues on Yahoo a few years ago. :p

If I choose a player on waivers, I'm basically placing a bet (my waiver priority) to win that player. If no one else is betting, then I win him in a push. It shouldn't cost me my original bet as I get my chips back.