I was still wondering myself, so I emailed Yahoo customer care and asked them.

This was their reply:

Penalty minutes are considered a positive statistic in order to allow positive scoring contributions from a larger number of players. While a penalty does put a team at a temporary disadvantage, a moderate to high penalty minute (PIM) total is often the sign of a tough two-way player.

I also thought that Don Cardi may have been incorrect when he said a few weeks ago that in setting up the league he was not given the option of making PIM a negative statistic if he wished, so I asked Yahoo about that as well.

Their response to that - which made no sense to me whatsoever - was that in a private league using a "Points Only" scoring format the commissioner could assign PIM a negative value if he so desired, but in Roto or HTH scoring, even in a private league, the commissioner did not have that same option.


Anyway, I wrote back to them suggesting that in the future, regardless of which of the three scoring formats are used, the commissioner should have the option of configuring the league in any manner that he wished.

Plaw, I never tried to claim more than one player in that waiver pick up. I only put in for Alfredson.

EDIT : Now can we put this all behind us and get on with the season, and make a decision about the change in waiver order?


So let's make this clear as day, so that I don't get 9000 PM's and 4200 e-mails from a certain member here :p

I believe that the new standings come out every Monday with the start of a new week/schedule. So are we all in agreement that I will change the waiver order every Monday?


Don Cardi

Then you must have known in advance, then, that SI Rockets was not gonna claim anyone.

With the second pick, if you didn't know that SI Rockets wasn't gonna put in a claim for anyone, you could not have been certain that he wouldn't take Alfreddson.

And if you weren't certain that you were going to get Alfreddson, how could you not claim Demitra, who is clearly much better than either of your present two right wings?
Like all of us, You were understandably interested getting one of the big four. Your first choice was Alfreddson. You know SI Rockets wasn't going to claim anyone, so you knew you would get him. You know there were four more claims to be made before your turn came agian, and you assumed (correctly) that the other three would be gone by then, so you didn't bother to claim any of them.

I was still wondering myself, so I emailed Yahoo customer care and asked them.

This was their reply:

Penalty minutes are considered a positive statistic in order to allow positive scoring contributions from a larger number of players. While a penalty does put a team at a temporary disadvantage, a moderate to high penalty minute (PIM) total is often the sign of a tough two-way player.
[/b][/quote]I get the feeling that hockey isn't one of their strong points over at Yahoo. It makes absolutely no sense.

That's it I demand a point for every foul a player commits in basketball. 2 points for a technical and 4 points for every ejection :rolleyes:

I was still wondering myself, so I emailed Yahoo customer care and asked them.

This was their reply:

Penalty minutes are considered a positive statistic in order to allow positive scoring contributions from a larger number of players. While a penalty does put a team at a temporary disadvantage, a moderate to high penalty minute (PIM) total is often the sign of a tough two-way player.
[/b][/quote]I get the feeling that hockey isn't one of their strong points over at Yahoo. It makes absolutely no sense. [/b][/quote]Yeah that doesn't make any sense at all.


But in that case picking up Todd Bertuzzi may not have been a bad move, yeah he's a -3 so far but he has a high PIM. So that just might offset his negative number.

As odd as that may seem.

Then you must have known in advance, then, that SI Rockets was not gonna claim anyone.

[/b][/quote]WHY DON'T YOU STOP NOW!!! How dare you imply that I spoke to Staten Island Rockets to see if he was going to put in for a pick I didn't even know the damn order of the waiver draft when I put that pick in! You really are out of control now!

What do you think I spend my days coniving and planing with the others on who's going to put in for who and how we can manipulate a fantasy league? :rolleyes: Give me a break Plaw. I have much better things to do in my daily life.

I looked at the players available and just put in for Alfredsson. Plain and simple. Look at who I cut to pick up Alfredsson. I was not going to cut him for anyone else but Alfredsson.

Hmmm, maybe I'll call DMC up now and see how we can screw Plaw. :rolleyes:

You have to be kidding me Plaw.


Don Cardi

Conspiracy theories for Fantasy Hockey!!! It gets better and better. :rolleyes:


Don Cardi

Oh my.

Maybe I shoulda played this game -- it's got the best thread!!

I wish you had, too, JG. And Don Sicilia also.

You're taking this very personal, DC. This is business and you're taking it very very personal.

Anyway, I don't expect any support or agreement from JL here. He thinks his team is unbeatable, and he's probably right if he says it is.

And DMC? Well, I must confess that I'm a bit disappointed in him. I know that he knows nothing about hockey and is just playing for the fun of it, but still....

Don Pelosi? Who is he, anyway? I certainly don't expect him to offer an opinion contrary to yours. But I am still wondering why he didn't claim anyone.

And then there's Iceman. Iceman, who was "grateful" that you put all of those players on waivers, claimed all four of the "Big Four", and actually thought that because he was in last place he was gonna get all four of them.

So tell me, IM, are you aware that the only reason that you got even one of these guys is because DMC screwed up?

Now....

Why don't I stop now? Why should I? Because you say I should?

I'm merely offering my analysis as to what happened here. What's wrong with that?

Are you saying that when you decided to put those players on waivers that you didn't know that you had the second pick?

As far as who you dropped to pick up Alfreddson…..you dropped a right wing, statiscally the worst of the ones you had, to add Alfreddson. I don’t see your point in bringing that to my attention.

Your other two RWs had much better stats.

What I don’t] understand is why you didn’t claim Demitra also, who is also better statistically than your other two RWs, and also plays center.

As I said, if you didn’t know that SI Rockets wasn’t gonna take anyone, you ran the risk of him taking Alfreddson and you getting shut out.

Makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

You say you wouldn't have cut Palffy for Demitra?

Here's a omparison between Alfreddson, Demitra, and Palffy"
How can you say that "I was not going to cut him (Palffy) for anyone else but Alfredsson."?

Now, I fully expect you to respond by saying that you don’t owe me any explanations for your strategy, and you certainly don’t.

But you have to admit that it looks mighty strange.

Also, DC, I think that you are deliberately misunderstanding me.

Nowhere am I accusing you of planning or doing anything to screw me personally. That thought never occured to me.

No, actually you are offering your opinion and your specualtion. When you say that I knew that Don Pelosi did not submit a pick, you are specualting and are implying that Don Pelosi and I conferred BEFORE I placed my pick. Ridiculous! You would think that there was a million dollar pot here the way that you've scrutinized, made accusations, implications and cried all season long.

That's right! While I may stay on top of my team and set my line-ups, I, unlike you, do not scrutinize every little detail. Fantasy Hockey does not consume my life. I do not lay awake at night trying to figure out what I can do next in the league to make my team win! I just enjoy playing. But to be perfectly frank with you, I am not enjoying playing with you in the league. You are really an untrusting person, and I don't want to participate with someone like that, especially when I am doing something for fun!

I was not aware that I had the second pick. And again, your accusing me of making that move of placing those players on waivers because I KNEW that I had the second pick. You're really reaching here Plaw. And you HAVE made this personal. Business my ass, you've accused me in two or three posts now, along with several PMs of basically conspiring and doing things that would benefit me. You know what they say Plaw, he who yells thief the loudest usually is the biggest one.

He is a guy that was in one of my fantasy football leagues. And what are you trying to imply when you say that you certainly don't expect him to offer an opinion contrary to mine?

I don't have to explain to you why I didn't claim a certain player. Maybe I didn't like his name. But either way it is of no concern to you who I should or shouldn't claim off of waivers. And what's the difference? Had I claimed him and gotten him you would have come up with another conspiracy theory and would be posting it all over the boards as you have this one.

Bullshit. Maybe you should go back and re-read what you've wrote and make believe that you yourself did not write it.

I must tell you. I am really besides myself that you have made such a big deal out of this, that you've managed to take the fun of playing out of this, and most importantly that you would even accuse me of or imply that I had personal motives in mind when I released all of those players to our league for waiver pickup. I cannot tell you how much you've hurt and shocked me with these posts, implications and accusations.


I've played Fantasy Football for many years, fantasy baseball for several, and I have NEVER had ANYONE in any of my leagues who's made accusations and bitched about things as you have. I am just so shocked at your behavior over a fantasy game.

Tell you what. You've upset me so much with these ridiculous theories and accusations, that I just may delete the whole fucking league.

It's not personal, it's just that you really have become such a hinderence to me with this whole fucking league.

You took it out to the boards for everyoine else to see. I didn't.


Don Cardi

Plawrence I never thought for a moment that I would get all 4 that I put in for. I knew I wouldn't due to the waiver position. I just couldn't understand why I was last on the waiver position due to my standings. So please don't imply anything about me.


Yes Plawrence I'm fully aware that I got one of the players due to that fact that DMC messed up. I could've sworn I said that in a previous post. :rolleyes:

Good god Plawrence give this whole thing a break will you. I'm thinking DC might be regretting starting this league.

Cause you've taken all the fun out of this. By that way this is just for fun, there is no money on the line, nor will anyone win a brand new Dodge Viper if they win this league. :rolleyes:

Well DC speaking for myself I wouldn't want to see you delete the whole league, as I've had fun as this was my first time of participating in fantasy hockey.

But if you do I can certainly understand why.

Ok, I've sent every active member of this league a league e-mail and I also posted here. Are we in agreement that starting tomorrow, I am going to change the waiver priority EVERY WEEK according to the standings?

I would like to get sa response from everyone before tomorrow. After all I don't want to be accused of maipulating the waiver order so that it is to my advantage. PLEASE respond.


Don Cardi

Yeah DC go ahead and change the waiver position based on the weekly standings. I think that would be best & fair to everyone.

Man I'm beginning to regret bringing up the whole thing in the first place. Knowing all the fuss it's caused.

Don't have any regrets IceMan. You didn't start anything so don't feel that way.

I never was a commissioner of a fantasy hockey league. Only a fantasy football league which basically has everything spelled out and taken care of by the NFL site itself. This fantasy hockey site does things much differently then the NFL site. The only thing that I may be guilty of is not familiarizing myself a bit more with the way that this Fantasy Hocley site is set up. I assumed that it was basically set-up in the same manner as the Fantasy Football site that I use. But I guess that I was wrong in making that assumption.

I assure you that I am in no way guilty of the things that have been implied in the above posts. To be perfectly honest with you, I am not that kind of a person and secondly, I don't have the energy or the time to try and maipulate something as meaningless as a fantasy sports game.

Now, I hope to get replies from the rest of the managers. Once I do then I will do what the majority wants done.

Personally, I too think that changing the waiver draft order every week based on the standings is the fair way to do it.


Don Cardi

I sure hope you two kiss and make up...

And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

Well, that was no surprise.

I would think, though, that since I'm "accusing" you, you'd be anxious to explain.

I know I would.
That's what analysis is, sometimes: opinion and speculation.

But OK, I'll correct myself.

This is what I think happened.

You still fail to see my point.

The prize has nothing to do with the way I feel.

If I take it seriously, that's my business. But just as I've questioned and criticized all season long, you've been defensive about every question and criticsm, sloughing them off by saying that it doesn't make any difference because this is all just for fun.

I guess it's a problem when one of the members of the league takes the game more seriously than the commissioner.

That's a rather sweeping statement, don't you think?

At least qualify it with an "I think".

Actually, just to set your mind at ease, I do not lay awake at night thinking of ways to win at Fantasy Hockey, nor does it consume my life.

Basketball and baseball, maybe, but not this.

Clearly I don't follow the game closely enough for my laying awake at night to make any difference.

Funny, though, how we can go on and on ad nauseum in political discussions, but as soon as I give as much thought to this as I do to that, you attach a negative connotation to it.

I enjoy playing, too.

But does that mean I should just sit back and not say anything when the commissioner of a league I'm in makes what I think are bad decisions?

As far as the question of "trust" goes, let me say this:

I gave a fair amount of thought to this question:

"If you did know that Don Pelosi was not gonna make a pick, what advantage, if any, did you obtain by knowing that when no one else did?"

And to be honest, I couldn't think of any.

Knowing in advance of his intentions did not give you any unfair advantage.

I think that when you decided to put these players on waivers you very possibly didn't know that you had the second pick, so I'm not accusing you of deliberately putting these players on waivers to benefit yourself.

And if you later realized that you would have the first pick, you did not obtain an unfair advantage by having that information.

I just found it unbelieveably curious - and I still do - that you only claimed Alfreddson and not Demitra if you didn't know that there was a chance that Pelosi might claim Alfreddson also.

So all I tried to do was figure out what would make you do that, and that's what I came up with.

You are the one that keeps attaching the word "accusation" to all of this, and implying that I think you had some unfair advantage.

As far as my taking the fun out of it for you, well I'm sorry for that.

But you've gotten even.

You've taken some of the fun out of it for me by making decisions which were unnecessary, not thought out, and which gave an advantage to some players over others.


If you say so, I believe you.

I was just asking.

Let me say it again:

I am not accusing you of making these moves to deliberately benefit yourself, and I would appreciate it if you would point out where I did.

What I am complaining about is what I said above:

Making decisions which were unnecessary, not thought out, and which gave an advantage to some players over others.

Again, where did I accuse you of this?

I'm really not sure where that comment fits into the discussion here.

And remember what Shakespeare said:

"Me thinks the lady doth protest too much."

I'm not trying to imply anything.

I think I made it perfectly clear.

The guy is a personal friend of yours, and I don't expect him to get involved in this discussion, much less disagree with you, especially since he didn't even bother to claim anyone on waivers.

And I'm still trying to figure that one out.

It's funny.....you have the opportunity to make a complete fool out of me by explaining why you claimed Alfreddson only and not Demitra.

You've taken great pains and many words to defend yourself against what you perceive to be my "accusations", but the one statement that could've cleared the whole thing up right at the beginning, is the one that you won't make.

Yeah, I know, you don't owe me any explanations.

But in the absence of one, surely you'll admit it seems a bit strange that you claimed Alfreddson only, and didn't want Demitra instead of Palffy.

Again....

I don't think that if you knew that Don Pelosi was not gonna claim anyone that you had an unfair advnatage in knowing that.

And there's no conspiracy here. No grassy knoll, and no second gunman.

You were the only one. :p

Again....where did I accuse you of planning or doing anything to screw me personally?

You keep talking about all of these accusations that I made, and I keep asking you where I made them.

All I did was ask if you knew your waiver position when you put the players on waivers, you said that you didn't, and that's good enough for me.

And in seeking a logical explanation for why you would only claim Alfreddson and not Demitra, the one I came up with seemed to make sense.

Am I not allowed to wonder what your logic was?

Maybe you had a good reason for not claiming Demitra that I was overlooking.

Again, you have to admit that it's mighty strange that you didn't take him.

And, for the third time, I am not suggesting that you had any unfair advantage if you knew in advance that Don Pelosi was not going to claim anyone, nor am I suggesting that you and he conspired for him not to claim anyone so you would have the first pick.

AAMOF, I remember taking great pains in my posts to make it clear that I was not accusing you of doing anything improper.

You chose to start a league and be the commissioner.

Any player in the league has the right to question or complain about the decisions that he commissioner makes.

So what does that mean?

As I've said, I believe that anyone in a league has the right to complain about a commissioner's decisions if he thinks that they are wrong.

Is this league special or different because you are the commissioner?

JG, Don Sicilia, and I - among assorted others - have played three seasons of Fantasy Baseball, Football, and Basketball, and there have been several instances over the years which called for the commissioner to make a decision.

And we always discussed it, aired our views, and reached what we all thought to be the logical and fair conclusion.

Here, though, you made all of the decisions without soliciting anyone's opinions, and then when someone - in this case me - complained about them, you didn't take it very well.

That's a sensible reaction. :rolleyes:

Why? Because a questioned what I thought were bad decisions and offered what in my opinion were better and more logical alternatives which you chose to ignore?

How else was I supposed to do it?

Send everyone in the league a PM to tell them what I thought?

The way we've always done it in these gangster BB leagues is to discuss these questions out in the open in the game thread.

Not true. We had that discussion before, through a PM and you admitted that you were wrong with that assertion. Remember?


Now, do you think that you can get over yourself, wipe away your tears, post a yes or a no about my changing the draft order every week based on the standings, and continue to play in the league?


Don Cardi

Maybe I misundersttod you.

When you wrote this in another post:

Thanks for making those players available. I've alrady put in for 4 just have to wait for them to clear waivers.

I thought you meant that you thought you were gonna get all four.


Yes you did. My apologies.

See, this is where we differ.

Just because we're not playing for money or prizes, that doesn't mean I should take it any less seriously than I would if we were.

As I said somewhere else, Why do we even bother to keep score?

It's becuase it's the scorekeeping that makes the game fun.

Would you want to play if we didn't keep score?

So yeah, it's just for fun. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't do it right.

Do you play any board games, like Monopoly, or Risk, or any like that?

Even if you're not playing for money, aren't you taking the game seriously while you're playing, and if something comes up that's not covered by the rules don't you halt play or something until everyone agrees on what the fair thing to do is?

I really fail to understand everyone's "This is just for fun, we're not playing for money, so what difference does it make?" attitude.

Iceman, you just played in our Yahoo Football League.

No money or prizes involved, and I can't speak for you, but didn't everyone (Me, JG, Don Sicilia, Turi, Ragging Bull, Double J, DMC, etc.) in the league, except for the two who dropped out in the middle of the season, take it very seriously, especially when the question came up about what to do about the two guys who did drop out in the middle?

I mean, I didn't hear any "It doesn't matter this is all for fun" comments there, did you?

Again, would you like to let me know if you agree with the idea of my changing the Waiver Order on a weekly basis based on the standings for that week?


Don Cardi

I would leave it the way it is.

Although I think that the best way to do waivers would always be in the reverse order of the standings, with no "rotation", either, I'm against changing the rules in the middle of the game.

For example, perhaps the reason that Don Pelosi didn't claim someone from the disbanded teams is because he wanted to save his #1 waiver priority for later in the season in case he needed it an emergency or something.

Also, why the vote by email?

What we've done in the past in other leagues is to have everyone give their opinion in the thread.

Maybe someone who voted already to change it will read my opinion and want to change their vote.

Don't worry DC I never thought you would do that. This is based on fun only and you don't strike me as the kind of guy that would actually manipulate scenarios to benefit yourself. Now if $50,000 was on the line then maybe.


Maybe I misundersttod you.

When you wrote this in another post:

Thanks for making those players available. I've alrady put in for 4 just have to wait for them to clear waivers.
I thought you meant that you thought you were gonna get all four.
[/b][/quote]Well Plawrence after reading that I can see why you though what you did. I should've added as long as no one else claims them. And when I put in for them 4 players, I didn't know my waiver position at the time. After going back and checking then I knew that I didn't stand a chance in hell of getting any of them.


No I didn't hear any comments like "it doesn't matter this is all for fun" in the fantasy football league. But yet at the same time I don't recall anyone making as much fuss about any transactions in that league as you are in this one.

You are just full of controversy these days, huh?

QUOTE]Originally posted by Don Cardi:
[b]Waiver Priority

I have the option of changing the waiver priority. If everyone agrees, I can change the waiver priority based on the standings every week.

I AM PUTTING THIS OUT THERE FOR DISCUSSION!

I am going to send out an e-mail through the league and take a vote. Please respond.[/b][/QUOTE]


Lets see, I sent an e-mail throught the league, as a responsible commisioner should do, but I made 4 posts soliciting the opinions of the managers and putting it out here for discussion.

So why are you telling me that in the past you have given the others a chance to voice their opinions in an open thread?

That is wht I have done with all those posts above.

You know something, I think that I see what the underlying problem is here. You seem to be under the impression that because the members of this league also happen to be members of this board, that as commissioner I should be running things in the hockey league according to the way that you have done things in your leagues here on the gangsterbb. Just because I may have solicited memebers from this board to play in the league, it does not mean that I have to do things the way that you, Goeff or Don Sicilia do things in your other leagues. And that comment is in no way a dis on Geoff or Don Sicilia. I appreciate that Geoff has given me the opportunity to use his boards to solicit players for my fantasy league. But that does not mean that everything that I do has to be done the way that you and those gentlemen do things over in your other leagues.


Don Cardi

This DMC guy seemed to really screw a lot of things up. I sure wouldn't want to be him.


I made my waiver picks based on yahoo rankings

Ok, here's the response that I got so far in the proposed change in the waiver order on a weekly basis based on the weekly standings :

Just Lou : YES
IceMan : YES
Don Cardi : YES

Plaw : Originally a yes vote, but now a No vote.

Don Pelosi : No response
DMC : No response


Don Cardi

I'm saying yes in hopes that another decision of mine doesn't turn the world upside down again

So the majority wants a weekly change in the waiver draft order based on the standings.

Now I have to wait until Monday as the standings are updated every week on Monday. I will change the waiver order giving the last place team the first pick in the waiver, the next to last place team the second pick in the waiver draft, and so on. Basically a reverse draft with the last place team getting the first pick, and the first place team getting the 6th pick.


Don Cardi