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Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263155
08/01/05 12:54 PM
08/01/05 12:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 67,851 The Villa Quatro
Irishman12
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UNDERBOSS
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UNDERBOSS
Joined: Dec 2001
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The Villa Quatro
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Looks like Canseco wasn't lying "Palmeiro suspended for steroids Rafael Palmeiro was suspended Monday for violating Major League Baseball's steroids policy, nearly five months after telling Congress that "I have never used steroids. Period." Palmeiro two weeks ago collected his 3,000th hit, joining Hank Aaron, Willie Mays and Eddie Murray as the only players with 3,000 hits and 500 homers. Palmeiro, 40, is the seventh and highest-profile player to test positive under the major league policy adopted earlier this year. MORE TO COME"
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Re: Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263161
08/01/05 04:54 PM
08/01/05 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 572
Jimmy Buffer
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 572
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Good point DMC. Right after the hearing McGwire was the one catching all the heat because he basically insinuated he used roids without ever actually admitting it, but at least he didn't lie in front of Congress. It might have made him look bad then, but three years from now, when he's still a free man and Raffy, Sammy and Bonds are rotting in federal prison for perjury, something tells me he won't look like biggest idiot of the bunch.
There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
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Re: Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263165
08/02/05 02:03 AM
08/02/05 02:03 AM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,190 Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Don Jasani
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,190
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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I still think he will get into the Hall Of Fame although most probably not on the first ballot. As for legal problems, his testimony at the Congressional hearing was pertaining to his actions up until that time and I don't believe steroid use after the hearings can be used in a perjury charge. This really is a shame, because he seemed like a decent guy who played the game the way it ought to be played. On a brighter note, although Baltimore is in the midst of a pretty big slump anyway, his absence can only help the Blue Jays in the A.L. East.
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Re: Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263167
08/02/05 08:18 AM
08/02/05 08:18 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
Double-J
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
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It's actually going to be an interesting debate, I think...
Should we allow a player who we know cheated by using performance enhancers be allowed into the HoF? I don't think so. If we're going to ban Pete Rose for gambling on the game (which, by all accounts, he deserves to be banned), why shouldn't a player who has been proven a cheater be allowed into the HoF? I mean, I can see admitting Bonds because he hasn't been proven to be using steroids, but Palmiero has gotten caught. No doubt about it, he shouldn't be heading to the HoF, imho.
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Re: Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263168
08/02/05 08:21 AM
08/02/05 08:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
Double-J
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
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Originally posted by MaryCas: Now how do we explain Giambi's surge of power? Maybe he has cleaned out his system and readjusted and this is the clean Giambi - OR - he's back on the juice. He attributes it to Don Mattingly and Reggie Jackson helping him, which is nice. But I think it's clearer than ever he's been pumping the 'roids again, no doubt. It's uncanny how he can go for a 1 1/2 seasons totally sucking ass during the whole steroid debacle, and now, randomly, he looks a little bigger, and is hitting again. Coincidence? He's been working with Mattingly and Jackson the whole time, I doubt that it would take a year and a half for their coaching to sink in. Giambi has got more juice than OJ Simpson.
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Re: Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263169
08/02/05 08:40 AM
08/02/05 08:40 AM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 67,851 The Villa Quatro
Irishman12
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Originally posted by Double-J: It's actually going to be an interesting debate, I think...
Should we allow a player who we know cheated by using performance enhancers be allowed into the HoF? I don't think so. If we're going to ban Pete Rose for gambling on the game (which, by all accounts, he deserves to be banned), why shouldn't a player who has been proven a cheater be allowed into the HoF? I mean, I can see admitting Bonds because he hasn't been proven to be using steroids, but Palmiero has gotten caught. No doubt about it, he shouldn't be heading to the HoF, imho. I agree with that but it probably won't happen. Pete Rose was baseball's scapegoat/whipping boy. They'll probably let Palmeiro in and he'll probably say in a couple of days that he NEVER took steroids (period) and that whatever he was taking that was banned on the list, he took without knowing. Pla-eze, with all the steroids controversary going around, I know I'd be watching what I put into my body so there couldn't be any doubt about it!
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Re: Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263170
08/02/05 09:27 AM
08/02/05 09:27 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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As far as Pete Rose goes, there is no credible evidence that he ever bet on basball. Other sports, yes, but not baseball.
Now, I'm not saying that he didn't. I'm only saying that there is no credible evidence that he did.
In fact, in his agreement with MLB, which both Rose and then-Commissioner Bart Giamatti signed, contained a specific provision to the effect that there was no evidence that Rose ever bet on baseball, and went even further, stipulating that MLB would make no mention of the fact that Rose had "supposedly" bet on baseball, a stipulation which Giamatti imeediately violated.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263172
08/02/05 10:27 AM
08/02/05 10:27 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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I agree with TM.
Keep in mind that Sosa will be 37 years old in November. He's at an age where his stats could be expected to decline significantly, steroids or not.
I'm not saying that I don't think he used them. I'm just saying that his statistical decline is not good evidence that he did.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263175
08/02/05 10:48 AM
08/02/05 10:48 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
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Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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All players react differently to the aging process.
If you look through the record books at the pre-steroid days, you would find many examples of players whose stats fell off the table overnight due to age.
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263177
08/02/05 11:02 AM
08/02/05 11:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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Would it surprise you if Clemens was?
Here's guy whose career seemed to be at the end of the line after his first two years with the Yankees (1999-2000) at age 38, after going 27-18 with an E.R.A. of well over 4.00.
Then suddenly he rebounds, going 68-22 the next four years, with an E.R.A. well under 4.00
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263180
08/02/05 01:21 PM
08/02/05 01:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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What makes Ryan all the more amazing is that one of the reasons the Mets traded him was his fragility early in his career.
Remember how he used to have to soak his hand in pickle brine because of the blisters he got every time he pitched?
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263181
08/02/05 02:47 PM
08/02/05 02:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 67,851 The Villa Quatro
Irishman12
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"NEW YORK (AP) - Seattle Mariners pitcher Ryan Franklin was suspended 10 days for violating his sport's steroids policy, the eighth major league player caught under the tougher rules enacted this year prohibiting performance-enhancing substances.
The announcement Tuesday came one day after Orioles slugger Rafael Palmeiro was suspended after testing positive for steroids. Franklin, a 32-year-old right-hander, is 6-11 this season with a 4.61 ERA in 22 games, including 20 starts. He was expected to talk with reporters later Tuesday.
"We are very disappointed to learn this news," Mariners spokesman Tim Hevly said. "But it's the direction of Major League Baseball, and, following its rules, we are not able to comment further."
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Re: Rafael Palmeiro LIED!
#263182
08/02/05 03:06 PM
08/02/05 03:06 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
Double-J
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
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I think it's funny though, today, there are comparing Palmiero's statements on Mike+Mike in the Morning.
Before congress, he said he "never took steroids," but now, he's saying he "never intentionally took steroids." I think though his benefit of the doubt is harmed because, despite his credibility (or lack thereof), Palmiero was included in Canseco's book, he said he showed him how to inject, injection spots, etc.
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