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Re: DEBATE - Tom Brady: Great Quarterback or OVER-rated?
#250556
01/29/05 08:35 PM
01/29/05 08:35 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 839 Elmwood Park, Illinois
YoTonyB
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Neighborhood Guy
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Posts: 839
Elmwood Park, Illinois
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He is neither great nor overrated. And that's not to say he couldn't become either of those. But right now, he's a consistently good performer on a talented team.
tony b.
"Kid, these are my f**kin' work clothes." "You look good in them golf shoes. You should buy 'em"
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Re: DEBATE - Tom Brady: Great Quarterback or OVER-rated?
#250558
01/30/05 02:50 AM
01/30/05 02:50 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 365 National City, CA
Caporegime
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Capo
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Posts: 365
National City, CA
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Brady is decent, but I wouldn't call him great. He has the ability to perform well under pressure and when it counts, but I believe that he's the product of the Belichick system. I think that if you take him out of that system, he's between an average to above-average QB. He's still 27, and has many, many years left in his career. As always, only time will tell if he can continue to propel the Patriots to greatness.
Sal: "Tom, can you get me off the hook? For old times' sake?"
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Re: DEBATE - Tom Brady: Great Quarterback or OVER-rated?
#250560
01/31/05 03:53 PM
01/31/05 03:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,619 NJ
Don Marco
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Originally posted by Turi Giuliano: If anything, he's underrated. No one has been prepared to compare him to the great QB's until very recently and if he gets this third ring he has every right to be put in the same catagory as the best. What makes his achievements even better is the fact he hasn't had the top receivers some of the greats have had. I agree completely - name one all pro receiver he has had in his short career. The great Super Bowl quarterbacks (by these I mean Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman) all had stars to throw to. He may not be flashy or possess the greatest stats, but he does the most important thing and wins. That being said, I would love to see McNabb get a little recognition of his own and upset the Pats.
"After all, we are not communists" Christopher Moltisanti: You ever think what a coincidence it is that Lou Gehrig died of Lou Gehrig's disease?
Tony Soprano: Yeah well, when you're married, you'll understand the importance of fresh produce.
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Re: DEBATE - Tom Brady: Great Quarterback or OVER-rated?
#250561
01/31/05 04:31 PM
01/31/05 04:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762 Anytown, USA
goombah
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
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He is a little short of being what I would consider "great." I would compare him to Troy Aikman, who had 3 rings but wasn't a league-leading QB. Yet Aikman found a way to win, albeit with more weapons than Brady had in Brady's 2 Super Bowl wins.
But it's hard to argue with two rings, and probably a third. Brady is not the least bit overrated IMO. He simply makes plays when his team needs them to be made. I guess he's a "victim" of the system he's in - he'll never put up the gaudy stats of a Manning, Marino, or Steve Young. But somehow he wins and wins, so maybe he is great after all.
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Re: DEBATE - Tom Brady: Great Quarterback or OVER-rated?
#250562
01/31/05 10:50 PM
01/31/05 10:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058 The Slippery Slope
plawrence
RIP StatMan
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RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
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I was listening to ESPN radio this morning, and they did a segment on how Bill Walsh rated the QBs of the NFL "Dynasties" of the 60's thru the present:
1960's; Green Bay Packers, Bart Starr 1970's: Pittsburgh Steelers, Terry Bradshaw 1980's: San Franscisco 49ers, Joe Montana 1990's: Dallas Cowboys, Troy Aikmen Present: New England Patriots, Tom Brady
Walsh rated them as follows:
1) Montana 2) Bradshaw 3) Aikman 4) Brady 5) Starr
To me, football is the quintessential "team" game. Teams have won Super Bowls with the likes of Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson, while other greats such as Dan Marino have never won a ring.
Based on that, I'd say that Brady is neither over or under-rated. He's right where he should be: A very good, but not all-time great, QB.
If a Matt Hasselback or a Drew Brees or a Trent Green or even a healthy Chad Pennington were on the Pats this year, would the Pats be any worse?
"Difficult....not impossible"
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Re: DEBATE - Tom Brady: Great Quarterback or OVER-rated?
#250563
02/01/05 11:51 AM
02/01/05 11:51 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145 East Tennessee
ronnierocketAGO
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OP
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
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Now why is Brady one of the best in the league? Among other things, hes a WINNER. But Brady is improving everyyear as a Quarterback. Going to his 2nd Pro Bowl this year(his first was back in 2001 and barely missing out back in 2002) check out his career stats out of 64 career games(excluding his non-existing rookie season where he attempted only three passes for a total of 6 yards): Comp. Att PCT YDS Y/A TD INT 2001 264 413 63.9 2843 6.9 18 12 2002 373 601 62.1 3764 6.3 28 14 2003 317 527 60.2 3620 6.9 23 12 2004 288 474 60.8 3692 7.8 28 14 ALL 1243 2018 61.6 13925 6.9 97 52 Also, take note of this: Seasons among the league's top 10(Rankings)Pass attempts: 2002-3, 2003-5 Completions: 2002-4, 2003-6 Passing yards: 2002-6, 2003-6, 2004-10 Passing TDs: 2002-1, 2003-10, 2004-6 Adjusted yards per pass: 2003-8, 2004-8 Adding his two Super Bowl MVPs, and this being only Brady's 5th season in the NFL, what else may come? Anyway, I don't think hes the best QB in the NFL though. ole Peyton Manning is the top dog of his position for sure. Here, in no specific order, is my Top 10 Quarterbacks in the NFL(At the Moment): Brett Favre - Packers Peyton Manning - Colts Tom Brady - Patriots Donovan McNabb - Eagles Michael Vick - Falcons *Drew Bledsoe - Bills Dante Culpepper - Vikings Marc Bulger - Rams Trent Green - Cheifs Chad Pennington - Jets Honorable Mention: Aaron Brooks - Saints, Drew Brees - Chargers, Matt Hasslebeck - Seahawks, David Carr - Texans, Byron Leftwich - Jaguars, Steve McNair(when healthy) - Titans, Carson Palmer - Bengals, and of course..."Big Ben" Roethlisberger - Steelers. *Okay, why did I put Bledsoe on my Top 10? While his 2003 season was mediocre, he had a pretty decent good season as he led the slowly-improving Buffalo Bills as would-be playoff contenders that didn't quite make it, but look out for them. Anyway, Bledsoe was in the Pro Bowl in 2002 so its not like hes over the hill. Besides being a consistently good Quarterback throughout his career, hes the only other "top" Quarterback at the moment that has 10+ seasons of NFL experience besides Brett Favre. Now back to Brady, I think that one other reason why Mr. Brady is getting alot of attention is sorts why a guy like "Broadway" Joe Namath was back in his day....Brady is a superstar. Hes got the youth, looks, and a chick magnet. Of course my wild theory is that many male fans hate Brady because their female spouses have a secret crush on him. Hey, just a theory...
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Re: DEBATE - Tom Brady: Great Quarterback or OVER-rated?
#250564
02/01/05 02:27 PM
02/01/05 02:27 PM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,619 NJ
Don Marco
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,619
NJ
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Originally posted by plawrence: I was listening to ESPN radio this morning, and they did a segment on how Bill Walsh rated the QBs of the NFL "Dynasties" of the 60's thru the present:
1960's; Green Bay Packers, Bart Starr 1970's: Pittsburgh Steelers, Terry Bradshaw 1980's: San Franscisco 49ers, Joe Montana 1990's: Dallas Cowboys, Troy Aikmen Present: New England Patriots, Tom Brady
Walsh rated them as follows:
1) Montana 2) Bradshaw 3) Aikman 4) Brady 5) Starr
To me, football is the quintessential "team" game. Teams have won Super Bowls with the likes of Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson, while other greats such as Dan Marino have never won a ring.
Based on that, I'd say that Brady is neither over or under-rated. He's right where he should be: A very good, but not all-time great, QB.
If a Matt Hasselback or a Drew Brees or a Trent Green or even a healthy Chad Pennington were on the Pats this year, would the Pats be any worse? It is rare to see my all time favorite - Bart Starr - considered an all time great QB. He was an extremely accurate passer that did what a great QB needs to do - win. His teams won the first 2 Super Bowls (he was MVP in both)and 3 NFL titles before they had Super Bowls, as well as one other appearance in the championship game. Couple this with the fact that he played in an era when the QB called the plays. I think the more recent player that reminds me of Starr is Aikman. Almost never lead the league in any statistical catagory, but leads in the most important catagory - championships.
"After all, we are not communists" Christopher Moltisanti: You ever think what a coincidence it is that Lou Gehrig died of Lou Gehrig's disease?
Tony Soprano: Yeah well, when you're married, you'll understand the importance of fresh produce.
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Re: DEBATE - Tom Brady: Great Quarterback or OVER-rated?
#250574
03/05/05 01:57 PM
03/05/05 01:57 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
Double-J
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,724
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Brady is a damn good quarterback, and that's the bottom line. Someone said he isn't the best pure passer, which may be true, he's not Joe Montana, but he can command a football team (as opposed to, say, Drew Bledsoe). Plaw, I just can't agree with your assessment of Bledsoe, being an avid Bills fan. I supported Drew when he came, and he had a great year in 2002, but we all saw in 2003 that he has a.) lost the speed of the game b.) can't think in the pocket c.) has terrible consistency. He could throw a perfect spiral for 35 yards into triple coverage to Moulds and have him come up with the ball, and the next play, a short route to Lee Evans wide open on a screen play and he'd miss him but about 7 yards, his pass would hit the turf like a dud. While he worked to improve his mobility in the pocket, he wasn't able to develop along with the O-line, which, while starting terribly, finished 2004 as probably the most improved portion of the team. Bledsoe had time. He couldn't even get it done against Pittsburgh's 3rd team. Lastly, if we look at it from the weakest link POV, we can see the QB position is out for sure. Defense - Solid outings, with Terrence McGee beginning his shift to a speed corner. Nate Clements and Troy Vincent were also strong (after Vincent moved to FS). Takeo Spikes showed in the Bengals game why is his one of the best OLB's in the league, and arguably can read the quarterback better than 98% of the backs in the league. The Bills defensive line was a run-stopping machine with big Sam Adams rejuvenating his career. Run Offense - Even with the Bills oft-mediocre offensive line, the transition from Travis Henry to Willis McGahee proved that McGahee is going to be a star. Receivers: Lee Evans as a deep-threat. Eric Moulds, former Pro Bowler, is still here. And Mark Campbell had a decisive year until his knee got wrenched. Pass Offense: Duh.
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