I disagree. Kobe is better than these guys because he has that MJ-like feeling for clutch shots. I'm not talking about his FG percentage, his unnecessary jumpers, his bad game in these finals at all. I'm one of the big fans of him here and even I know he's been the hell of a disappointment in this series against the Pistons, but I still think he's the best player in the league because he is at least as great as Duncan, Garnett and all the great stars in the stats, and is better than anyone when the game is on the line. just remember that the Pistons are not celebrating their title just because Kobe hitted a BIG shot in game 2.

What a lame series... There's still hope for L.A., but I doubt that they'll actually take advatage of the oppotunity, and seeing the way they've been playing lately, I guess they don't want it.
I'm starting to think maybe all those people are right who think the games are bought; I mean come on, the Lakers can do better than this! Everyone knows that. Even with the Pistons' defense, which isn't much... I mean if L.A. got past the Spurs a few times... Besides, I don't think the Pistons are as good as you all are saying; and I'm saying this completely objectively: They haven't scored more than 88 in any of the games, except that game where they got 91, which they lost anyway.

So what was said about the Pistons MAKING L.A. play badly, I'm not so sure about that. Because if they were so good, they would have scored more points, in my opinion. Unless L.A. was playing big-time defense, which they're not. There's no effort anywhere in the Lakers' game.

Hey Patrick, what you said about next year everyone picking a new team, you're probably right. But I think that will be the Laker fans elsewhere... the Laker fans in L.A. are pretty loyal... even when L.A. was losing bad a few years ago, all their games were always still sold out. But oh well.. I guess people like rooting for the winner, isn't that right?

Lakers Fan speaking ....
:p

The Pistons are not playing good defense - that's what you are saying ? Are they showing different games in LA than they are over on the East Coast cause I don't think you are watching the same games I am. Well that or it's the rose colored glasses you are wearing. How can you really say the Pistons are not playing good defense?

And the Pistons aren't that good cause they don't score a lot of points. That's because thats the style of basketball they play - that is Larry Brown's style, has been for years - you are still used to 'Showtime'. If the Pistons have control of a game - they will use the clock, and they have had control of the games. That is why you don't see many fast breaks by them. I still think the Lakers have the more talented players but they don't play as well as a team than the Pistons. Shaq is on fire last night to start the game, he was like a man among boys out there, and in the last what 7 minutes of the first half Kobe gets him the ball 2 maybe 3 times. That is why Shaq was pissed at him and he had every right to be. That team is imploding each game and the Zen Master, Phil Jackson :rolleyes: well he ain't bringing them together. He is sooo over-rated as a coach anyway.

Is it over - it is tough for the Lakers but they win the next game, which I think they will - well they could win 2 at home. Doubtful but not that unlikely. But they have to figure out a way to exploit the Pistons defense if they are going to be successful.

Now BDD, if you can't play nicely... :p

It is my opinion that Detroit deserves all the credit for being up 3-1. I agree with BDD - it doesn't matter how many points Detroit scores for them to be considered a great team. It just matters that they score more than the other team. If you hold teams to 75 points a game - guess what - you only have to score 76.

Hey for me that was nice.

It's nothing like the posts I make to you and PLAW and some guy named Pork.

But back to the series I went into it rooting for the Lakers - cause I never wanted that pr!ck Larry Brown to get a championship ring. But after the first game when I saw Malone and Payton both thinking the championsip was an easy season for them - Kobe and Shaq fighting like an old married couple, and Phil Jackson clueless in what to do - I realized I wanted the misery of losing shared among many. As I have said I still think the Lakers have the better players - it is just that the Pistons are playing better as a team.

I disagree. Kobe is better than these guys because he has that MJ-like feeling for clutch shots. I'm not talking about his FG percentage, his unnecessary jumpers, his bad game in these finals at all. I'm one of the big fans of him here and even I know he's been the hell of a disappointment in this series against the Pistons, but I still think he's the best player in the league because he is at least as great as Duncan, Garnett and all the great stars in the stats, and is better than anyone when the game is on the line. just remember that the Pistons are not celebrating their title just because Kobe hitted a BIG shot in game 2. [/b][/quote]WHich statistics would you be referring to?
Garnett is better at almost every aspect of the game.

I can give you 3 point shooting, clutch shooting and ft shooting but Garnett is a better scorer overall (avg more points then Kobe on 50% shooting). He does it from mainly midrange and is ALWAYS doubled or tripled.
He defends better inside and out. KG is the only guy that regularly can guard every position.
KG wins all "big man" stats (blks, rebs) by a landslide, as he should.
Kobe hardly leads in the "guard" stats. he leads assits by .1 last season, and he is a guard playing with the most dominant player ever on his team, while Garnett is always the finisher. Kobe barely leads in steals, but he can play passing lanes, making the gamble bc he knows he has interior defense. Garnett is the interior defense on his team.
Garnett gives 25 points every night and grabs 14 rebounds to go with it
With Kobe you dont know if you are gonna get 15 or 35, and you dont know if its gonna be done on 20% or 50% (KGs avg is Kobes "MJ level" night). His scoring is what makes him great and KG did it better this season, and did a lot more to go with it.

..and Kobe missed three 3 point attempts in the fourth qtr before that big one in game 2, and is shooting about 20% beyond the arc in the 4th qtr of playoff games. Kobes shot helped win game 2. His terrible shooting lost games 3 and 4

well you and I see the game in very different ways. I absolutely agree with almost everything that you said. and I still think Kobe is as good as KG. he averages 20-5-5 or something like that (last season he was 30-7-7 for a while), getting 5 ast per game even attempting as many FG as he does, and gets 5 boards a game, standing on 6'7 and having to share the boards with the biggest guy in the game. KG gets 14 RPG being the only guy who actually goes for them, and is the first offensive option of his team, while Kobe shares the work with Shaq all the time. and, in my opinion, he is very good at the D (not in this finals series, but he has been good at all). as I agree with almost everything you said in your last post, I think one thing equalizes the other, at least if you don't take a cold look at the numbers and don't stick with them.

about Kobe missing 2 or 3 treys in the 4th quarter before hitting the one with 2 seconds left, that's what I'm talking about! and blame his shooting for the Lakers' losses is pretty unfair don't you think?

I think if Kobe gets such a share of the glory when he plays well and they win, he should get equally trashed win he plays poorly and they lose.
Please understand that I see Kobe as an AMAZING talent. Right now I consider him the best shooting guard since Mike, AIs MVP year included. There is no player id rather have take my last shot in the L right now.
But heres what I think holds Kobe back
1)Brains: Along with KG and PP Kobe is the best at taking it to the hoop with a dribble. He shoots too much. its not the FGAs that bother me (he has to shoot the way the role players are playin), its the shot selection. Mike had bad games but he picked it up immediatley. If the jumper wasnt fallin it was straight to the hoop everytime. Also the lack of getting the ball to Shaq is several players fault, including Kobes
2)Consistentcy: Id rather depend on 25 pts then not knowing if you are gonna get 10 or 40
3)Overall play...i described this in my last post. just my opinion Garnett is a better player


That said...i betting on 35+ from Kobe tonight

If I were starting a team from scratch, I'd take Garnett.

--A great big man is hard to find
--Shooting guards, while they may not be as good as Kobe, are a dime a dozen
--Garnett does two things that no other big men do as well: Outside shooting and bringing the ball up. Like the time Magic played center, I almost think KG could play the point if he had to.

yeah you are all obviously right, and I'd may also pick KG if I was gonna start a new franchise.

anyway, I have a question to you all: if the series come to an end tonight, who do you think will get MVP honors?

as the Pistons would be the champions, so here are the contenders:

R. Hamilton 21.5 PPG 5.8 RPG 4 APG
C. Billups 22.8 PPG 5 APG
R. Wallace 13.3 PPG 9.5 RPG

although I love Ben Wallace I don't think he would be an MVP candidate. well, obviously the choice would depend on tonight's game, but so far I'd pick Billups for MVP. Hamilton is a bit better in the stats, but I like Billups game most.

if the Lakers get to win tonight and then take over the series, Shaq will be the MVP, we all know, at least Kobe wake up and start playing all he can. anyway, I think tonight will be sooo happy to me LET'S GO PISTONS!

Shaq deserves it even if they lose...
but itll go to Chauncey. Best Piston so far

L.A., CA

Man, I thought the Lakers would win in a walk but Detroit straight up beat them! Hopefully next year the Raptors will make the playoffs.

Ah, the Fakers lost. What a wonderful place.

Yeah, yeah... Oh well.

A hush fell over L.A. tonight. Hahahah yeah right. Most people were just pissed off at the arrogance, and almost no one was surprised. Actually, I would have been surprised if they won, personally. They sure as hell didn't deserve it this season. Well I can't say it for the whole season, but after the last two series, they didn't deserve it, that's for sure.

Well, there's always next year. But the Spurs are getting better every year, so I don't know. I know the Lakers didn't deserve it, but I'm still not convinced that the Pistons DID deserve it.

Luckily my opinion doesn't really matter, so I don't have to make up my mind.

It was a good run while it lasted, though.

Well, I'm still at a loss to explained how the Lakers played so poorly. But give Detroit credit. They got Shaq into foul trouble in most of the games and scored so many easy, uncontested baskets.

I'm sure Phil Jackson's ego won't be able to handle losing his first Finals and that he'll walk away from the Lakers and take a year off. And I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he surfaces the following year to coach another superstar player: LeBron James & the Cleveland Cavs.

L.A. showed up for only 8 minutes of this series, and that was the last 3 minutes of game 2 and overtime. The rest of the series, they were terrible. Part of that was because of Detroit and how they frustrated the entire team with their defense. Payton didnt show up the entire playoffs which really hurt the Lakers and Malone was hurt the entire series.

Until game 5, only Kobe and Shaq had scored into double figures the first 4 games, not one other player had gotten 10 or more. Fisher and Medvedenko had 10 each last night but some of that came in garbage time when the Piston were already celebrating. The Pistons had 5 players average in double figures. The next highest average after Shaq and Kobe was Derek Fisher with 6.4 points per game. Malone averaged 5, and Payton 4.2. With barely any offensive help from Malone and Payton, the Lakers never had a chance. The Pistons knew they were gonna go one of two places each time: Kobe or Shaq, making them pretty easy to defend. I have a feeling we're going to see a very different Lakers team next year with no Kobe, Jackson, Malone or Payton.

As for Phil going to Cleveland, it wouldnt be in a year or two years. Cleveland still didnt make the playoffs in the pathetic east. Until they establish themselves as a contender, like the Lakers did in the late 90's, he wouldnt dare take them on. He'll take a team where he knows he has enough talent to win it all. Don't be surprised if hes done after this year, hes gettin pretty old and doesnt have the same passion he once had for coaching. The only reason to continue coaching would be to win the most championships by a coach, but I dont know if it matters that much to him.

I gotta take my hat off to Detroit. I don't believe any of the Laker excuses. They didn't show up, they were injured, the refs were paid off, blah, blah, blah. The Pistons simply outplayed, outhustled, outcoached, outshot and out-everythinged the Lakers. The Lakers didn't belong on the same court as the Pistons for the whole series. As a Laker fan I am really embarrassed how the Finals turned out, but I am not going to make excuses for them. Detroit is a worthy champion and look like they have a strong, young nucleus for next year and will be contenders for a long time.

I was one of the people that thought the Pistons made a mistake by not taking Carmelo Anthony with the 2nd pick of the draft last year, but they seem to have done well without him. They might not have gone after Wallace if they had Anthony. The Pistons really played well as a team, and won with defense that the Lakers were never able to figure out.

Big question - what happens to the Lakers next year? Is Kobe back? What about all the older guys like Malone and Payton? They could really look different next year, with new players and a new coach.

Give me a break. All of these coaches, from Phil Jackson & Larry Brown to Bill Parcells & Joe Gibbs, never stay retired. Jackson is not old - he's 59. If he sits out even three years, 62 is not that old for a coach. All of these coaches are egomaniacs. Of course winning a 10th title is important to Jackson. It may not seem important coming off a loss of the title, but I'm sure he wants it.

When Jackson took over LA, they were an underachieving team. But they had 2 superstars already in place. Phil knew that all he needed was the right role players to surround Kobe & Shaq. If he came to Cleveland, he's got LeBron and Boozer. That's all I'm saying - that those 2 players would be enough to attract Phil Jackson.

As far as your assessment of the Cavs, they missed the playoffs by finishing behind the Celtics, who finished eighth. And that was after a horrific 9-21 start and their record was weighed down by the two team cancers that they traded gby January - Ricky Davis & Darius Miles. The Cavs went from 17 wins in 2002-03 to 35 in 2003-04. Unless LeBron & Boozer get killed over in the Olympics, the Cavs are making the playoffs next year, probably as a #4 or #5 seed, and winning about 45 games.

that is the image of the final series: the Pistons out-everythinged the Lakers. they were better in pretty much everything you can think of.

well, goombah I'll take my hat off to you if your prediction about the Cavs turn out to be right. I agree they might make the playoffs next season, but as #4 seed with 45 wins? I don't think so, although I know it is surely posible.

anyway, where will Kobe be next season? Philly, Denver, jail? what do you think?

Tony
Despite the Pistons winning it all, the East is still weak. Many of the teams that made the playoffs from the East have question marks. I believe that the Cavs will definitely be better than these teams from this year's playoffs: Boston, New York, and Milwaukee.

As far as Kobe, if Jayson Williams can avoid serious jail time, then certainly somebody of Kobe's stature will not be convicted. Assuming he'll still be playing, I think he wants to go somewhere in which he is the only superstar. Maybe Philly if they trade Iverson, but not Denver. I think Kobe has had his fill of Colorado this past year :p . I also wouldn't put it past him to go to a really bad team like Chicago or the Clippers. The reasoning is that Kobe may want the challenge of building a team into a winner.