Originally posted by eddietheplumber:
RICARDO,if your gonna outline the crews and
their positions stick to the godfather series.
DID you read wise guy at all?
OR even watch the movie?Every story line you
told is wrong!DO YOU know these guys real names?
not one of varios crew was made or held any type
of street title except his brother.
burke and hill ran the street scams on varios
ground and jimmy made sure paul got his tribute.
BURKE WAS 100% IRISH,hill was 50/50 irish
italian.TOMMY did kill batts,then spider,finally
stax edwards,tommy was killed after that by
paul for pay back to the GAMBINOS,TOMMY killed a
made soldier w/out permission."CARBONE"real name
anthony stabile was killed by drug dealers.do not
even get into casino do you understand why tony
"the ant"was even there?read that book too!
Learn to read!
I read Wiseguy AND watched Goodfellas! I aslo read the Lufthana Heist at
http://www.crimelibrary.com I didn't SAY any of them were Made. I said Paulie was a Capo and had his own Regime. and IF we were foing to TREAT his Regime as a Family then Jimmy would be the Underboss, Tutty the Consigliere, Henry the Capo, and Tommy the Enforcer. OKAY, Burke was 100% Irish, ONE mistake. I SAID Hill was Irish/Italian. Tommy MAY have been killed on the orders of Paulie or MAY have been killed by Gambinos Gotti Crew; to this day it is still uncertain if DeSimone was murdered or went into hiding to escape trial. Batts was a Member of Gambino's Gotti crew. Anthony Stabile and Angelo Sepe were portayed as Frankie Carbone. One was found in a frozen meat truck, and in the movie it appears that Tommy or Jimmy had Carbone killed!
I've seen AND Read Casino: Love and Honor in Las Vegas!
Nicky Santorro/Anthony Spilotro was sent out by the Chicago Outfit to watch over Sam Rothstein/Frank Rosenthal. The fame went to Spilotro's head, and he disobeyed the Bosses back home, and in the early 80's he was killed, and buried alive with his brother in a cornfield!
Anything else?
Originally posted by Rusty:
[quote]Originally posted by Ricardo:
[b]First of all, Tommy DeSimone killed Billy Batts, then Stax Edwards, then Maurie, and then either him or Jimmy set up the rest of the hits. (Carbone, Raostbeef, Buddha, Frenchy)
No. Tommy did not order or set up any of the hits. Neither did Jimmy. It was Paul Vario, and to a
small extent Jimmy - who was not even made, much less in a position to put out contracts on these scumbags.
Underboss (Sonny) IS More important than Consigliere (Tom). It's Consigliere, E for ONE, I for more than one. eg. Piciotta, Piciotti
Paulie Cicero is TREATED like the Don, but in fact he is a Luchese Capo Regime. Under his Regime, I'd say Tutty was his Consigliere (He did the talking), Jimmy was his Underboss, Henry was a Capo, and Tommy was the Enforcer (Even though he was disliked by Paulie).
Paulie was treated like the boss, because he
was their boss. You don't ever hear of Tony Ducks or Tom Mix because those guys were at the top. These misfit motherfuckers all paid tribute to Paulie exclusively. Therefore, he was in a position to have them all whacked, which he nearly did.
In actuality, Jimmy was Irish/Italian (or Jewish). Henry was Irish/Italian. Tommy was 100% Italian (Maybe Sicilian), he good be an official member of the Mob.
He killed Foxy, and he killed Batts...which is why he was rubbed out. Jimmy was 100% Irish, while Henry was only half greaseball.
A Made Man is a man of 100% Italian heritage who has been inducted into a Mafia Family. Had Tommy been Made he couldn't hav ebeen whacked. Someone could have whacked Henry and Jimmy without starting aMob War, but if Tommy was killed then there would be Retaliation. Batts was Made so the Gotti crew whacked Tommy for killing Batts.
Wrong. A made man today only needs to be 50% Italian, on his father's side. The rules changed since thirty years ago, due to lack of personnel. Yes, Tommy
could and
would have been whacked as a made guy. If cigar Galante was the boss of the Bonnanos, and Ange Bruno the boss of Philly, both whacked with shotguns, then made guy Tommy would have had no chance of surviving into the 1980s. That is such a joke. For one, Paul Castellano would have marked a hot-head like Tommy for death, especially at a capo like John Gotti's behest, so forget a mob war. Paulie would happily have gone along with it, first because he hated that asshole DeSimone, and second because he would have loved to make Big Paul happy. Everyone did.
Sony "made his bones" by committing armed robbery, and by forcing three repairmen to work at gunpoint.
Actually that's not right. He
did whack a guy for his button. In the middle of the book, it clearly says he was the most feared warrior of the mid-1930s war in NYC. He was a stone killer who earnt it the hard way. The stickup of the repairmen who took apart the components in his house was just a lack of judgement, which his dad admonished him for later.
In Casino, I'd assume that Nicky Santorro was a Capo, or a Bruglione, an out of state Capo (Cross in Vegas with the New York Clericuzio Family, Pentangelli in NY under Mike in Vegas). Rothstein was the associate (The Jew), he couldn't be made he was always the numbers guy.
Anthony (The Ant) Spilotro was a made guy, later a capo, in the Outfit. He went against Jackie Cerone and Joey Aiuppa's orders with his gang, but they allowed him to live while he raked in the nearly $1 million per-month revenue he was doing with his crew at the diner. They were a bit like Gaspipe Casso's "Bypass Gang" from '81 until the early '90s in Brooklyn. When The Ant's crew started becoming rats, he was whacked with his brother in the Indiana cornfield, with only his underwear left on his broken body.
Until you're Made, you're a Civilian. Killing Jimmy Conway or Henry Hill may or may not have resulted in retaliation, it would've been up to Paulie to discuss with Tony Ducks Corallo.
Paulie never discussed it with Tony Ducks. They were half-assed associates as far as rank went. Even as earners, they were bringing too much heat with their drug deals, because they were the bottom guys who sold it. Paulie invested in drug shipments, but the insulation between himself and the sellers meant he wouldn't get his balls busted by the DEA or the Feds for it. This is why Jimmy and Henry were marked if they got caught. Tony Ducks might have sat down for something like Tommy's murder, if he was made, but I doubt it. He was busy in his Jag making concrete deals and getting photographed at Commission meetings in Staten Island suburbs.[/b][/quote]In Goodfellas we're led to believe that either Tonny/Paulie/ or Jimmy set up these hits. In Wiseguys, it may say differently, sorry.
Tony Ducks Corallo was the Boss of the Lucchese Family and is mentioned in Wiseguys. Paulie Vario was a Luchese Capo who assocaited with the key characters in Goodfellas.
My definition of Made Men was the one given by Henry Hill in Goodfellas.
In real life, I KNOW you can be Jewish, Italian, Chinese, Irish, Spanish, Russian, whatever and be Made.
Pope Castellano probably WOULD have had DeSimone murdered. Remember Gotti and Castellano were NOT the best of friends. You did know, Gotti was respnosible fo rmurdering Castellano in 1985, after Aniello Dellacroce died? Of course you did.
It says towards the end of Book 3, that Vito sent Sonny downstairs with the repairman as a chance to make his bones.
Someone said Sonny killed the Irishmen that shot Vito. Actually, Luca dethroned the Irish Mob single-handedly. (I doubt it, but that's what Puzo said :rolleyes: ) I think Puzo mentioned Sonny being feared, but i don't remember reference to him actually killing anyone. I'll read Book 3 again and get back to you!
I agree if Henry Hill hadn't testified and landed Vario and Burke in jail, they would've went down with Corallo, Gotti, Persico, Salerno and everybody else in the Famous Commision Trial!
Sal Romano ratted on the Hole in the Wall Gang and landed Cullotta and Spilotro in jail. You stated the rest, the Spilotros were murdered in Indiana.
Sorry, if my points weren't 100% clear.
But It seems to me the only thing i got incorect was that Jimmy Burke was 100% Irish not 50/50!
Originally posted by AppleOnYa:
[quote]Originally posted by Ricardo:
[b]...Sony "made his bones" by committing armed robbery, and by forcing three repairmen to work at gunpoint. (Read the Novel, Apple 
...Ricardo, hopefully we're all keeping in mind that you're only 16 (according to you) and will one day discover you're not such a bigshot and really don't know anything. I'll step aside & let eddiethep handle you, but for Christ Sake, just keep my name out of this topic!!
Sure, it's a fake name!
Nevertheless....
Apple[/b][/quote]What about my post makes me a 16-year old know it all?
Someone asked how Ranks were divided, and how bones were made.
I explained how ranks were in Casino and Goodfellas and how in Sonny's case he didn't need to kill anyone because he was the Don's son.
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NOW i'm an annoying 16 year old!
Originally posted by Turnbull:
You raise good points, Injektilo and Fanucci. I also think being "made" requires murder, as in "making your bones," but I'm not sure it's consistent. Junior Gotti and Bill Bonanno, were made, apparently without killing anyone, because they were sons of Dons. Nicky, in "Goodfellas," did kill someone--Morrie, with an icepick, in Frankie Carbone's Lincoln Connie, but it was at the behest of Jimmy Conway, not a made man himself. Then again, Jimmy was treated as if he were a capo or underboss--really lorded it over all the Italians in the film. Joe Valachie was a made man, but he never admitted to killing anyone except the guy in the Atlanta pen. I dunno--it's all over the place.
Valachi has also admitted involvement in or knowledge of Several Castellammrese War murders including Peter Clutching Hand Morello, and "Buster from Chicago".
