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Once Upon A Time In America - Explain
#191712
09/01/05 06:13 AM
09/01/05 06:13 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,246
MistaMista Tom Hagen
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,246
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To keep it short, I rented this movie, I wanted to like it, I gave it a chance, I started fast forwarding after about an hour and only stopped for Pesci and the hits.
I'm a forgiving kind of guy, I wish people who don't like my favorite movies would give me a chance to convince them why they're good.
I'm sure there's some fans of this film here, so please, enlighten me, lecture me, give me as much detail as you like, but please, please, convince me why so many people like this movie when I found it so horrible.
I like DeNiro, I like James Woods, I like mafia movies, I like Pesci, but I hated this movie.
If someone could explain to me why they like it, I'd appreciate it.
I dream in widescreen.
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Re: Once Upon A Time In America - Explain
#191713
09/01/05 07:31 AM
09/01/05 07:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543 Gateshead, UK
Capo de La Cosa Nostra
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 12,543
Gateshead, UK
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Interesting, like in the Heat thread, I'm going to post a review I wrote for this a while back, earlier this year. I'd appreciate it a response. Once Upon a Time in AmericaDir. by: Sergio Leone Country: US Year: 1984 Running Time: 229 minutes “Le temps detruit tout.”“Time ruins all things,” so Gaspar Noé’s Irréversible (2002) claimed. Leone’s Once Upon a Time in America is not so different. Both films contain a shocking rape scene at a pivotal point in their respective plots; both scripts play with narrative conventions to emphasise their point; both are blessed with great, emotively suitable scores; and both treat their protagonists as deeply flawed beings at odds with a world driven by inescapable violence. But while Irréversible portrayed its violence in an agonisingly post-modernistic, ultra-realistic fashion (and yes, it is a fashion of sorts), Leone strived to make his part of poignancy which lay at the core of his film, making the violence, gunshots and even Noodles’ rape, seem nothing less than operatic. In the same way that his Once Upon a Time in the West (1969) transcended the Western, Once Upon a Time in America revitalises the gangster film, that genre which in the thirties Hollywood made its own, to spectacular effect. Spectacularly slow, some might say. And they’d be right, but they would have no justification in complaining. For slowness is the point here. It emphasises Leone’s message: that time, as Noé made so clearly and polemically over thirty years later, does indeed destroy all things. Jewish gangster Noodles (Robert De Niro, restrained) grows up with Max (James Woods, calm with bursts of animation) and rises to the top of the Lower East Side’s prohibition racket. Sent away in exile after shopping his friends to the police—a betrayal out of compassion and love for them—he is lured back in 1968 to find that there may be one last secret for him to learn. That we learn of Noodles’ betrayal so early on in the film and that it is, chronologically, very late in the tale, shows how convoluted this is. Leone’s sharp eye for period detail—captured lovingly by photographer Tonino Delli Colli, particularly in the extraordinary exterior shots—lends the film a grandiose feel of the epic, placing viewers in its mise-en-scène with wonderful authenticity, much in the same way as The Godfather (1972) and its sequel (1974) did. Carlo Simi and James Singelis’ art direction adds much visual and production value, while writers Leonardo Benvenuti, Piero de Bernardi, Enrico Medioli, Franco Arcalli, Franco Ferrini and Leone’s adaptation of David Aaronson’s novel The Hoods adds operatic weight to the proceedings, a fine blend of hardboiled colloquialisms and Shakespearean extravaganza. As with Once Upon a Time in the West , the music is a character in itself, and perhaps the most important, since it is that which evokes most of the film’s emotion. Morricone’s score was again written before filming began, a unique way of creating the scene’s tone, which was repeated to phenomenal effect when Krzysztof Kíeslowski filmed his Trois Coleurs: Bleu (1993) to Zbigniew Preisner’s score. A haunting pan-pipe motif, mixed with other rare instruments, America’s score suggests a humanity full of despair and regret, a hymn to the American Dream sadly gone wrong. This is a magnificent film, a sweeping epic in the strongest sense, with Leone drawing attention throughout to his obsession with time and how it relates to our lives. Note the beautiful, noted sequence where a phone rings to the memories of Noodles, for some twenty-four times, before finally revealing whose phone is ringing. And even then, the context of the phone call is not revealed until much later in the film, a delaying device used more overtly in González Iñárritu’s 21 Grams (2003), which inter-cut scenes in a non-linear narrative to address how much substance lies in the little moments of life. As it was also suggested in 21 Grams, time is but memories, which soften the past and destroy the present. Leone delivers a tale of love, friendship, and the corruption of the avaricious West; compelling stuff, and, more than anything, a mere fairytale, suggested by Leone’s full awareness of how fake Cinema actually is, epitomised in the dream-like title itself: Once Upon a Time…Thanks for reading, Mick
...dot com bold typeface rhetoric. You go clickety click and get your head split. 'The hell you look like on a message board Discussing whether or not the Brother is hardcore?
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Re: Once Upon A Time In America - Explain
#191714
09/01/05 08:13 AM
09/01/05 08:13 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 252 England
Raymondo Corleone
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 252
England
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Ok, as much as I love this film, I can understand how someone doesn't understand why it's so well liked. If you want to appreciate this film, try the following: 1) Watch the film all the way through, and DO NOT FAST FORWARD! 2) Don't think of it as a gangster film, because it isn't really. It's a story about a man and his life, who happens to be a gangster. It's certainly not mafia. 3) When you watch the film for the first time, concentrate on what is happening with the plot. It seems weird, but do not try to fully enjoy the film on first viewing because it is so complex that most people can't grasp everything. 4) Once you have seen the film, make sure you have a good understanding of what went on. Read some posts here or on IMDB if it helps. 5) Now you have seen the film and understand the plot, watch the film again a few months later, only this time just sit back, relax and enjoy the film for what it is. Try to appreciate the music, the mood, the way the characters develop etc. 6) Most importantly, I would say, regardless of any of the other of my points, you MUST take your time with this movie. Don't expect high adrenaline hits and car chases or anything throughout the movie, and don't just keep waiting for the next action scene to come along. The movie is slowly drawn out, and just be patient with it. Try to understand that Leone let the movie take its own gradual pace to that everything is explored and nothing is rushed over. Hopefully, those points may help you to either enjoy the film more, or at least explain why I love the film so much. Originally posted by MistaMista Tom Hagen: To keep it short, I rented this movie, I wanted to like it, I gave it a chance, I started fast forwarding after about an hour and only stopped for Pesci and the hits.
I'm a forgiving kind of guy, I wish people who don't like my favorite movies would give me a chance to convince them why they're good.
I'm sure there's some fans of this film here, so please, enlighten me, lecture me, give me as much detail as you like, but please, please, convince me why so many people like this movie when I found it so horrible.
I like DeNiro, I like James Woods, I like mafia movies, I like Pesci, but I hated this movie.
If someone could explain to me why they like it, I'd appreciate it.
"Just When I Thought I Was Out - They Pulled Me Back In....."
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Re: Once Upon A Time In America - Explain
#191715
09/01/05 10:35 AM
09/01/05 10:35 AM
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,155 Some anonymous motel room.
Don Vercetti
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,155
Some anonymous motel room.
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This is Sergio Leone's best film. Many people see it expecting a gangster film with DeNiro and Pesci, not knowing it's the opposite, and Pesci has one scene and a three or four second appearance near an elevator.
It's a film about guilt. It's about Noodles' decision, and how it destroys the life he knew. The big debate is whether or not it's an opium dream. This film works BOTH ways, so it is not important.
THE OPIUM DREAM Many think the scenes from the 1960's are not real. It's possible. Noodles' has nothing but drugs to comfort him after his decision, and the urban legend is that opium makes you hallucinate of the future. The film could simply be a guilty fantasy.
REALITY The film could still be real, and it works just as well. Noodles' ends up taking refuge in Buffalo (if memory serves) and spends 30 years there, until his return. He confronts his past demon, but also finds new ones in the form of a senator who looks like Max, and claims to be him. He won't kill him, but Max walks towards him, being passed by the dump truck and vanishing.
I personally believe the former.
Proud Member of the Gangster BB Bratpack - Fighting Elitism and Ignorance Since 2006
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Re: Once Upon A Time In America - Explain
#191716
09/01/05 10:46 AM
09/01/05 10:46 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 252 England
Raymondo Corleone
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 252
England
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I saw a post on IMDB, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087843/board/nest/19398390 which is very interesting. The guy reckons Noodles couldn't be dreaming as he watches a television, something that wasn't around in the early 30s when middle section of the film was set. He couldn't have just imagined a TV, so they stuff in the 60's has to be real. Food for thought anyway.
"Just When I Thought I Was Out - They Pulled Me Back In....."
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Re: Once Upon A Time In America - Explain
#191717
09/01/05 07:06 PM
09/01/05 07:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,024 Texas
olivant
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,024
Texas
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Raymondo, you are right. It is a film about a man and his life, the decisions he made, the good and bad times, and the consequences of it all. Actually, if you strip away the gangster motif, you are left with a life not that different fromthe average persons. The road not taken, etc. I don't watch it that often because it saddens me. Also, the score is heart rendering.
"Generosity. That was my first mistake." "Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us." "Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
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Re: Once Upon A Time In America - Explain
#191719
09/02/05 04:16 AM
09/02/05 04:16 AM
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 252 England
Raymondo Corleone
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 252
England
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Oh there is so much more to that scene that you would first believe! If you get round to watching the film again try to understand what Leone is trying to say.
"Just When I Thought I Was Out - They Pulled Me Back In....."
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Re: Once Upon A Time In America - Explain
#191723
09/07/05 10:50 AM
09/07/05 10:50 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 173 Pennsylvania
skaggerratt
Made Member
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Made Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 173
Pennsylvania
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Capo De La Cosa Nostra, Beautiful review of Once Upon A Time in America. I am a semi-active member of this post, but i have not read the original posting of your review.
This film is more about beauty in friendships and loyalty, than anything else. The honesty of the film, as expressed by several sexual innuendos, further expresses the point that the events of the story are possible.
To fully appreciate the film, you must look beyond the actors (names) and take in the scenery and most importantly, the music. I was so impressed with the films score, that I ordered the soundtrack from Spain. (I live in the United States)
I agree with having to watch the movie several times to fully understand all of the concepts. This is so true with Once Upon a Time in America, since it is so long and so complex. Similar to Godfather II and Pulp Fiction, once you understand the chronological order of the story, the true appreciation can really begin.
Bart, Is it wrong to steal a loaf of bread to feed your starving family? No. Well suppose you got a large starving family, is it wrong to steal a truckload of bread to feed them? Uh-uh. And what if your family don't like bread, they like cigarettes? I guess thats ok. Now what if instead of giving them away, you sold them at a price that was practically giving them away. Would that be a crime Bart?
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