This may have been said but couldn't they have had a better way of Michael finding out that Fredo was the traitor, even as simple as him overhearing them in the bathroom talkin to johnny ola about how he didn't want it to happen this way. I mean there is no way Fredo could be that stupid. "Yah Johnny Ola loves this place but oldman Roth never comes here." Come on he can't be that stupid to say that in front of mike. The only thing I can assume is that he must be really really drunk, but they did not do a good job of making him look drunk.

What do you call a person who after hearing what Moe says takes sides against his family? I call him dumb, stupid, jerk, .... I don't know you decide.

Moe Greene: The Corleone Family don't even have that kind of muscle anymore. The Godfather's sick, right? You're getting chased out of New York by Barzini and the other Families. What do you think is going on here? You think you can come to my hotel and take over? I talked to Barzini. I can make a deal with him, and still keep my hotel!

What I always wondered is didn't Mike have the phone lines recorded, as in Fredo received the phone call from Johnny Ola the night before the shooting. Woulden't Mike have looked at all the incoming calls like Sonny did after Vito was shot?

Do you mean before shooting or after that?
Fredo said Johnny Ola met him in Beverly Hills and he told him about that deal. I don't think he called him after that and before the hit. That call Fredo received when Johnny Ola asked him about Frankie though, I've no idea. Tom should have done that.

I think that the scene with Ola's phone call to Fredo took place at Fredo's home, not the tahoe estate.

Just goes to show you that Fredo was the dumb witted one. And besides, Mike had an idea that it was Fredo before then, hearing him say that at the Superman club was icing on the cake.

But there was something in it for me, what an idiot. Michael gave him enough.

What did Michael give him though? Money and security, okay - but what kind of job did Fredo do? I'm not a man, but I think guys pride themselves on titles - what was Fredo's title? Fredo Corleone, manager of slutty motels with Vegas chicks? Maybe Fredo wanted to wear nice silk suits too? Not that I'm on Fredo's side - just wondering?

Right. I don't think Fredo lived on the estate before the Havana revelation. In a deleted scene, you see Fredo and Deanna pulling up to Anthony's party in their car (an extremely cherry '55 Mercedes 300SL Gullwing coupe--he must have been doing very well in the Mickey Mouse nightclub business).

One point you might want to consider, Lost Don: the scene you object to makes a neat parallel to Fredo's earlier betrayal, when he took Moe Green's side against Michael. In that scene, Moe revealed that Fredo was "banging cocktail waitresses two at a time." In Havana, Michael asks Fredo to "show my guests a good time." He takes them to the Superman sex show. I think FFC was trying to show us that Fredo was a degenerate as well as a traitor. And I don't think it's a coincidence that Fredo also operated the whorehouse where the prostitute was murdered.

well, in that vein, I can understand why Fredo was so taken with the ladies…it was really the only power he had. He surrounded himself with floozies (even his wife) because it made him feel like a man….his position in the family business didn’t……

I think it was not only Fredo's drinking that night that caused him to run at the mouth. He was the man in charge, he was the one showing everyone a good time. I believe he was showing off for the senator and the rest of the party by bragging about how well he knew his way around.

Thanks. I always thought he was on the Tahoe Estate. I thought that is why he was so mad at at Johnny for calling him.

I don't think that michael would ever have that kind of tacky room at the tahoe estate...Kate would just NOT allow it.

I can just picture the mirror over the bed...

I'd agree. When it comes to interior decorating, I think Kate was more of the Martha Stewart type.

*giggle* i meant KAY....but for sure she would not stand to have that kind of bordello style room in her house, in her HOME, where her husband sleeps, where her children come to play with their toys....

The only other time I saw black sheets on a bed was in "Lost Highway"...

I was thinking Fredo felt "close" to Moe Green because he was shippped off to Vegas and Moe was supposed to look after him. He was pretty well shut out of the Corleone family business so he doesn't know much of what's going on there. In Moe Green he saw power and money with all the flashy girls and the Corleone family was simple.
Maybe because he didn't really know how powerful the Corleones were he felt Michael overstepped the line when talking about buying out Moe. And maybe Moe was the only one to hang out with him - I mean how long had he been in Vegas and when was the last time someone from the Corleone family went to visit him? But in the end, no Fredo was a dummy - why couldn't he remember to never take sides against the family

Fredo was half in the bag at the Havana sex club, and not paying attention to Mike standing behind him. He just blurted it out not thinking that Mike was gonna hear it.

I never figured out why Fredo denied knowing Roth and Ola anyway. We are told that Roth was an old associate of Vito's, dating back maybe 30 years to the Depression. If he knew Vito all that many years back, who's to say Fredo wouldn't have met him at some point? Plus Fredo had been fobbed off on Las Vegas by Sonny and Vito, sent out there so he would stay out of trouble. Moe Greene took him under his wing, but whose wing was Moe Greene under? Hyman Roth. Hyman Roth was supposed to be the head honcho behind all of Las Vegas.

If Fredo had been sent out to Las Vegas 6-8 years before to be involved in mob stuff under the protection of Moe Greene, he could hardly have NOT known Hyman Roth (or Ola who was his right-hand man.)

I never did get what was the point of Fredo saying he didn't know Roth.

Fredo was feeling guilty and he knew Roth was behind it,hell he was working for Roth.If Michael did find out it was Roth,(and Ola,who was probably the contact between Roth and Fredo)Fredo had been saying all along that he didnt know these men, he'd never met them,he was no way connected with them.

You do bring up some good points there.

Yeah, but I guess my question is, wouldn't Michael have known that had to be BS right from the start? I guess it shows how dumb Fredo was, how he didn't really think things through, and wasn't smart enough to think up a good lie to get himself out of trouble.

If he said, "Yeah, I know Roth and Ola, I met them when I was working with Moe Greene. Heck, I met him like 10 years ago, when he was trying to set up a smuggling deal with Pops. Me and Sonny were in the room when they talked about it, this was when you were still off at college," Michael would have believed it.

But when he says, "No, I never met them," Michael knows that's BS right there on the spot.