Cameron, or indeed any filmmaker for that matter, has no obligation to teach us a history lesson. That his film is set on Titanic's voyage (and indeed named after the ship) is secondary to the story, which, let's face it, could have been depicted elsewhere.

How anyone could both praise his efforts at "technical detail" and then criticise the film for not showing a real-life story from "that night" is something of a paradox, no?

What are my thoughts on Titanic? I think it's brilliant; hated by many because of its box-office success, loved by others for much the same reasons.

There've been worse Best Pictures, though my interest in Oscar has gradually waned over the years; who, I wonder, is interested in any other film festival awards ceremonies? Cannes? Sundance? Berlin? Venice?

Hmm...

I kind of lost interest in independent film festivals when I saw all the awards the one festival had given Barton Fink, which I thought was an average film.

Yes, a little quick to judge, but thats what did it for me.

As for me, I was just referring to your reference of not knowing what romance is for not liking Titanic.

Whatever. You apparently don't if you truly think Titanic is the standard bearer for romance.

'Love defating death?' Jack dies!

The relationship would've never happened if you look at it realistically. Rich, engaged woman falls in love with poor drifter? Uh, no.

The relationship would've never happened if you look at it realistically. Rich, engaged woman falls in love with poor drifter? Uh, no. [/b][/quote]I dusagree, though I still think it has a poor impact.

So how come you're still interested in the most unjust awards ceremony in the film industry?

Emphasis on industry.

Good point

probably publicity reasons, and just all the clout that goes along with winning an Oscar. Plus the fact that they're not always wrong; Godfather, Godfather Pt II, American Beauty, etc.

I agree with all of that. However, the film was named after the doomed ocean liner, and it's that story that initially brought people in. It's unfortunate that the fictional story of Jack & Rose did not play a secondary role to the tragedy, instead of the other way around.

And again...there are many 'true' stories of love and courage that happened that night. It's a shame that Cameron didn't research and elaborate on one of those, instead of feeling the need to create that nonsense. Did we really need the sex in the car? Did we really need Jack being framed and handcuffed to a desk and left to drown, only to be saved by Rose in one of the dumbest, most unrealistic scenes I've ever seen? I remember really losing it when the fiance of Rose (evil rich guy, of course) began shooting at Jack. And again when Rose hid from the guy next morning on the Carpathia.

What bullshit. What trash. What a shame.

Apple

Actually, I liked Titanic. I don't know if I'd consider it worthy of an Oscar, but I did enjoy it. I think that Cameron did include several "true" characters, and the research on the ship, getting all those details right, was an outstanding job.

Yes, he did. Such as Molly Brown, ship builder Thomas Andrews, and of course Captain Smith & the crew. And Cameron's attention to detail was outstanding; the only reason in my opinion that it did become Oscar worthy. Still though, the fabricated Jack/Rose story was dominant and that's what stinks.

I have to admit that my being a Titanic buff for the past 30 years has alot to do with my complete disgust with the film. Obviously it was enjoyable to many who are not quite as interested in the tragedy itself.

Apple

Apple, If you are a Titanic buff, I suggest a visit to Halifax, Nova Scotia. As you probably know, Halifax was where the survivors were taken and the center of the recovery effort. They have a maritime museum with a very interesting Titanic exhibit. Also, many of those that died when the ship sank are buried there, including one child that was unidentified until recent DNA tests confirmed who he was. We took a tour of the cemetery, and there is a J. Dawson buried there, but no relation.

Jack's death is exactly where it is shown that love defeats death. He dies just in order to let her live. Live also for him, as he in fact asks her before dying. And Rose is in fact going to have a long, long and full life, always cherishing the memories of Jack. At the end, Rose and Jack will be reunited after Rose's death, as the touching scene with all the Titanic victims applauding shows us. Love defeating death is, btw, a very old concept since Greek myth and possibly earlier. A love that survives after one partner's death is definitely stronger than time and death itself. An inspiration for a huge amount of works of art in every age.

Trouble is you shoudn't look at it realistically, IMO. This way you'd lose all the magic. You look realistically at a documentary, not at a movie. A movie - as any other work of art - is the free creation of the human geniality, where there are not other rules but art itself, not a mathematic formula. I dare say, borrowing a Shakespeare's most famous quote, cinema (at least when it is not purposely "realistic" in a documentaristic sort)is "such stuff as dreams are made on".
Are dreams supposed to be realistic? No way.

well, she was very unhappy as well. Jack was poor but he was a real human being, with blood in his veins, "air in his lungs" and a genuine passion for life, not a stiff dummy. But then again, it that really important? Let yourself jump in the love story, savour every bit of it. Let your imagination freely flow through the scenes. You'll enjoy it to pieces.
Otherwise I surrender. Too bad for you! :p

The only thing I liked about Titanic was Rose's dress in the painting scene

To be sure so did I!

I'm sorry, but there wasn't room on that door for poor Jack? Rose couldn't have moved her fat butt over a little? :p

I'm sure there are many documentaries out there to document the tragedy of the Titanic disaster. But I see no need for Cameron to give me something more realistic than he did. The atmosphere of the ship was enough, and sufficiently achieved in my opinion. Take, for instance, the scene where the captain waits at his wheel for the water to come gushing in, or, during the same montage I believe, the old couple lying on the bed with the water flooding around them. Not once, during that montage, did I question if that actually happened; the feelings it conjured in me overrided that.

Like I said, I don't watch the film for a history lesson, nor does Cameron have any responsibility to give us one.

Actually, that was based on a real life older couple who went down with the ship. Mrs. Strauss refused to leave her husband's side to get in a lifeboat. When a seat was offered to Mr. Strauss because of his age, he also refused to get in ahead of the other men. So...although it's unlikely they returned to their cabin bed to await the end like the two in this trash movie...the Strauss's is indeed one of the true life 'love' stories of the Titanic tragedy.

Incidentally, the Strauss's were the owners of Macy's Department store and quite wealthy.

Apple

Really? Cool. Thanks for the insightful info.

Though my point stands: that it didn't matter, and it still doesn't, whether or not that particularly happened. My emotions were not influenced in any way.

Perhaps I would feel differently, more involved, if I held more personal attachment or even historical interest in the voyage.

For now, I don't.

Hi, Capo...as stated previously I agree with you that Cameron had no obligation to provide us with only historical facts, nor does any other filmmaker when making a movie based on a true story.

I'll also stand by my point though, that the fictional, fabricated, nonsensical, rich v. poor love story of Jack & Rose made it into a piece of trash.

So I guess in keeping with the original theme of the thread, Titanic gets my personal vote for the 'WORST Best Picture'.

Best,
AppleOnYa

I remember hearing a similar morbidly amusing anecdote about the Titanic disaster. There was some businessman, who was known as a heavy sleeper, and they say that supposedly there were efforts to wake him up by pounding on his locked door while he was sleeping but to no avail, so he evidently slept through the whole thing and died. :rolleyes: