Originally posted by Double-J:
Personally, no, I would never condone abortion, even in that case....Other than the aforementioned question, I've been completely forthcoming with all of my opinions.
There ya go. That wasn't so tough, was it?
See, the thing about abortion, like most issues, is that I don't see it as all black or white, but rather with many shades of grey.
Knowing someone's opinion with respect various hypothetical situations sometimes help clarify things for people who don't tend to view everything as an absolute.
By PL:
You always manage to avoid the tough questions with your defense-mechanism-like little quips that add nothing to the discussion, so it's really a waste of time to bother even asking them.
By JJ:
Pfft. And you always manage to spin the issue, but that doesn't fool anyone, not Apple or Fathersson, especially.

I think that one will go done as a classic. Really, I do.
We all tend to generally use that "lol" smiliey far too indiscriminately, I think, but this was one time that I actually did.
By PL:
"How come a guy that believes what you believe doesn't drop out of school (where you're nice and safe) and join the armed forces?"
By JJ:
Actually, someone did ask that of myself (as well as other BB'ers) in a thread quite some time ago (feel free to dig it up).
And the answer - while it is none of your business - is quite simple. I have scholarship at University, and will be in a doctoral program with a stipend and research grants. Should I give that up to join the Army? Had my nation called upon me, I would faithfully do my duty, no questions asked. However, as you well know, our army is one compiled of volunteers.
Translation: "I'm nice and safe in school, why risk my life fighting 'The War on Terror'?"
"It'a a volunteer army, which is great. That way, I can do a lot of talking, and leave the volunteering to others, many of whom dropped out of college to join the war because they bellieved in it."
By JJ: "I have scholarship at University, and will be in a doctoral program with a stipend and research grants. Should I give that up to join the Army?"
If you believe in the war, yes you should. I think this country has enough history teachers.
And does that mean if you weren't in school with your grants and stipends, you
would enlist?
Now don't get me wrong: In your position, given this particular war, I might very well do the same.
But as someone once said, "Let's call a spade a spade"
By JJ: Speaking of which, Plaw, what are you doing to help the war effort? Heck, why didn't you go to Vietnam?
I'm doing nothing to help the "war effort", and I'm proud of that fact.
I support the
troops , however (a distinction that some fail to see), by wanting to bring them home. I've contributed some money to a couple of organizations which provide little amenities for our troops (one of which was suggested a few months back by Don Cardi), and written to a few of my elected officials to voice my protest of the war and express my desire to see our brave men and women get home safely and alive.
And no, I didn't go to Viet Nam.
You have it backwards, though BTW, when you imply a negativity to that by saying "Heck, why didn't you go to Vietnam?"
Why? Because obviously, I didn't support that war. Had I supported it, I might very well have joined the military to fight for what I thought was right.
Hard to say for sure, though, 40 years later.
But since I wasn't afraid to demonstrate against it, even in the face of being part of a peaceful demonstration and attacked on a picket line by bunch of hard-hatted construction worker-thugs swinging iron pipes and having only my bare hands to fight back with (and getting a good ass-kicking in the process), and another time being waded into by billy-club wielding police and winding up with a broken arm for my efforts, I don't think I would have been afraid of fighting in a war if it was a fight for something I felt was right.
I was one of the lucky ones, though.
I managed by hook and by crook to stay one step ahead of my draft board, and so was never afforded the opportunity of going more than 5000 miles away to fight an "enemy" that I or other Americans had no quarrel with, and having the chance to come home in a box.
And, for your information, from 1969-1975 I was a memeber of the United States Army Reserve.
At that time, the reserves was considered a "safe haven" from service in Viet Nam, since reserve units were never called to active duty, but I figured that by joining, in addition to self-preservation, I'd be ready to fight for my country in case we ever
were attacked or really at war with someone.
As you must remember, the "cold war" was still on, and we weren't that far removed from confrontations such as that over the Berlin wall or the Cuban Missle crisis.
So if we ever were in a "real war", one in which our country was actually threatened, I was ready to go.
All in all, though, if there's one thing that I'm ashamed of during the Viet Nam era, it's not my failure to serve
in Viet Nam, but my failure to do more to end the war there.
BY DMC: It's personal attacks and flame bait like this that bring these debates down.
By JJ: Actually, I find that it is unsubstantiated comments, spin, and diversions that do that just as well. Look, Plaw. We're not even discussing the issue at hand now. Kudos.
Give your kudos to DMC, not me.