That's my point exactly.

I never said that the local and statte governments were not to blame as well.

And I'm just wondering if in the event of another terrorist attack on a major American city, the procedure and protocall will be followed as it was in this case. [/b][/quote]So let me get this straight Plaw, someone like yourself, who is a HUGE advocate of not allowing government to have a big say in the lives of the people, and not allowing the federal government to "bend the rules" in extreme circumstances is now saying that the federal government should have thrwon aside all procedure and protocol implemented under our laws of the land and just do what they deemed neccesary by thier own judgement without following the law?

Actually I agree that under extreme circumstances the federal government should do what needs to be done, stat!

But what puzzles me is that in the past I've said this in regards to fighting terrorism, but you have always challenged me about that, stating that laws and proper protocol should never be pushed aside no matter what.

Very interesting.


Don Cardi

"I thnk we need to change the procedures so that federal aid is immediate, without the procedures and red tape."

Interesting, yes. But also quite typical.

Apple

I agree that when it comes to a disaster like this, or an attack on our country the federal government should be allowed to take action without local requests having to be made. I think that in a situation like 9/11 the federal government can take action to protect the country.


DS

I don't disagree with that.

My reply to Plaw was in the "spirit" of political consistancy. Plaw has always admiringly been a consistant advocate for what he stands up for and believes, no matter if you agree with him or not. And I just found it out of the ordinary that he would abandon his consistant nature in this case. Not taking him on or trying to disagree with him, just asking him why he would advocate procedure, protocol and rights in the case of catching and prosecuting terrorists, but will now abandon those same pricipals and beliefs.


Don Cardi

Aiding the victims in New Orleans is not "giving the government a huge say in people's lives".

Besides, don't many of the social programs that I favor, by your definition, give the government a huge say in people's lives?

And there's a big difference between an immediate emergency in which people are dying, and a situation in which our civil liberties are compromised in the name of the war on terrorism.
Of course the rules should be bent in extreme circumstances. But the bending of the rules should be appropriate to the situation at hand.

The tragedy in New Orleans and the war on terror are both extreme situations.

But where it would have been a proper and appropriate response for the federal government to act immediately in the case of New Orleans, I don't IMO, believe that The Patriot Act, for example, is a proper and appropriate response to the events of 9/11.

And finally, there is no requirement that I be consistent in my views. Just because I feel one way about one issue, that doesn't require that I feel the same way about another issue which is completely different.

As you know, I have many views which can be labeled as Conservative.

I believe in a laissez-faire economic policy with an absolute minimum of government interference in business. I believe that if someone owns a two family home and doesn't wish to rent the upstairs apartment to a member of a minority, or a homosexual, or whatever, that's their property and their business. I believe that if someone owns a busines, and doesn't want to hire a minority member or homosexual or pregnant woman or whatever, it's their business and their decision.

"I thnk we need to change the procedures so that federal aid is immediate, without the procedures and red tape."

Interesting, yes. But also quite typical.

Apple [/b][/quote]As is the reaction of some posters to say "This is not the time for blame..." then two post later to say "I think you'll find the local government was to blame..."

Now it may be different in the States (and probably is) but I generally understand bureaucracy, red tape, procedures and protocol to be internal rules of an organisation and not necessarily framed by the laws of the land.

It's also interesting to note that outside the USA (for which I know quite a few of you don't give a hoot ), the general view is one of disbelief that the United States appears to be dealing so poorly with a major disaster in its own backyard.

Fair enough Plaw. I just wanted to understand where you are coming from.

But to quote your sentiments from many discussions in the past, where do you draw the line in deciding when to bend the rules and when not to?

I do agree that when it comes to the threat to human life, rules sonmetimes must be thrown away and common sense needs to take over. And sadly to say in this case common sense was not used by many involved.


Don Cardi

When do you people "outside" the USA ever have a positive view of our country? Oh, yes, when you need us to help you all out!

Who the hell are you to pass judgement on my countrys response to a horrible disaster like this?
Actually, in case you overlooked it once the GREAT AMERICAN MILITARY did get in there they saved tens of thousands of lives within a day and a half. But you wouldn't mention that because people like you are so blineded with your hate for us and you just jump at the opprotunity to step on us when something happens to us.

Tell me, what has your country done to contribute to the lives of the humans affected by this disaster?


Did you bother to make one post offering your sadness for what happened?


Im sick of the anti American posts that seem to flow all over the boards in the past few weeks.

DS

DS,

Did you really expect anything different? There are those extremists out there who were celebrating and thanking ALLAH for "striking" the USA when this happened! :rolleyes:

There are some American haters around the world who are now naming their newborn daughters KATRINA!

Know what? Who gives a damn. Time to take care of our own and say "too bad" to those who hate us.


Don Cardi

When do you people "outside" the USA ever have a positive view of our country? Oh, yes, when you need us to help you all out!

Who the hell are you to pass judgement on my countrys response to a horrible disaster like this?
Actually, in case you overlooked it once the GREAT AMERICAN MILITARY did get in there they saved tens of thousands of lives within a day and a half. But you wouldn't mention that because people like you are so blineded with your hate for us and you just jump at the opprotunity to step on us when something happens to us.

Tell me, what has your country done to contribute to the lives of the humans affected by this disaster?


Did you bother to make one post offering your sadness for what happened?


Im sick of the anti American posts that seem to flow all over the boards in the past few weeks.

DS [/b][/quote]Whoa there compadre...DS, if you thought that my post was in any way anti-American you need to lie in a darkened room for a few hours. I know even from these boards that millions of Americans are expressing the exact same sentiments. But I understand your over reactions to my post. I know you're feeling vulnerable.

Oh and I'll tell you what gives me the right to comment on your response to Katrina...I'm a human being watching other humand beings die. Comment, compassion, anger etc are not emotions exclusive to citizens of the USA.

Jeez you guys are touchy. I can't remember every one of my 850-odd posts but I'm struggling to remember one that I would consider anti-American...cue copies of 150 posts!!

By the way who or what is a "Picayune"

Guys, lets remember we're an international community here and everyone has a right to voice their opinions (even if they take a contrary view to what appears to be a majority here). If you're gonna get that bent out of shape by hearing one or two of those differing opinions please stay out of political discussions on these boards.

Senza,

Did I make a specific reference to you in my post?

Are you an Islamic Extremist? Have you named your child Katrina?

I was speaking in general when I replied to DS's post and if it appeared that I was making a direct accusation towards you, then I apologize.

Unless that is that you fall under the people in the world that I was reffering to.

Don Cardi

I'm sorry. I guess that I am still hurt by all thats happened and I let my emotions get the best of me. I just feel that there are people around the world who are happy that this has happened in our country. I shouldn't have taken it out on you SenzaMama.

SC, you are right.


DS

Sorry DC, I thought the "did you expect any different" referred to me directly. Let's take a deep breath and count to ten. 48 hours ago you and I were agreeing on things!

Let's lighten things up...what is a Picayune??

Fuggeddabout it man. DS I take the view let's get everyone out of there, implement a plan to recover the bodies, bury or otherwise the dead and then let's redden a few official faces (and beleive me, con or lib, Dem or Rep I'm all for that )

The bitch of it all, DS, is that I can see where the rest of the world would think we're not very adept at handling our own tragedies. I would only hope their (foreign country) presses are carrying the same coverage now that we're getting a grip on things in New Orleans.

We're cool. I think that many of us here in the USA and in the world, including DS, are just shocked and hurt about this and we tend to become a bit sensative and react to things said without really thinking. Emotions sometimes take over for us when they really shouldn't.

A Picayune is a person who looks to Pick on everthing.


Don Cardi

I hope so too.


DS

SC, this is a huge news story here as well. Last night it took up more than half of the main nightly news bulletin. I mostly watch the BBC and rather than comment on the rights and wrongs of the relief effort for the most part they've been reporting what commentators in the States have been saying...on the rights and wrongs of the relief effort

A Picayune is a person who looks to Pick on everthing.


Don Cardi [/b][/quote]You mean like a liberal??

A lot of the press here is crucifying various levels of government on the relief effort (and in our system of checks and balances that isn't a bad thing). In all fairness now, especially on the Federal level, the government got its ass in gear and the relief effort is moving on like no other country in the world could do. Sure, it took two days longer than it should have, but its happening now and its only fair that foreign presses report it as such.

Ok it's been pointed out to me that Picayune is a city near New Orleans

Thats pretty good.... Picayune is a small town in Mississippi, about 50 miles away from New Orleans.

Ok it's been pointed out to me that Picayune is a city near New Orleans [/b][/quote] I thought that you were asking what the phrase "Pickyune" meant!

Sorry about that!


Don Cardi

For those who are interested (or care) about other what other countries are saying, I found this article.

Even tho I don't think we are accepting foreign help, I am pleasantly surprised that we got the offers we did.


How Can This Be Happening In America


TIS


*Note to Goombah - I can't pm you back becaue your mailbox is full. You're quite popular evidently. Check your e-mail.

I just heard some disturbing news about this. The President had contacted The Governor on the Sunday before the hurricane hit and told her that he would get her ANYTHING that she needed from the federal government. He asked her on Sunday to take the proper procedures and adhere to proper protocol and to sign the executive order requesting federal assistance from the federal government. She did NOT sign and submit that executive order until Wednesday! WHAT THE HELL WAS THIS WOMAN THINKING?


Don Cardi

I'll tell you, this has given me more respect for the way that the State and City of New York worked with the federal government after September 11th. Many people are unhappy with Pataki now, and glad that he's not running for another term, but I think that the way that things were handled in LA should make us appreciate what was accomplished here even more.

SB, you are so right. I'll never forget how quickly Pataki, Giuliani and Kerik coordinated not only with each other, but immedeatly with The President and the federal government. The leadership shown by Pataki and Giuliani was superb that day and the days following. They held the spirit of this city and it's surrounding areas together.


Don Cardi

Absolutely true, DC. While the aftermath of September 11th also made me cry, I remember being so proud to be an American and a NYer. The aftermath of Katrina has left me only sad and angry. I am proud of the way that we as a people have rallied to send help and volunteer our time and money, but the reaction of the government has just pissed me off. It has disgusted me to see the suffering and deaths that could easily have been avoided. Since when do we leave our dead on street corners, covered in sheets? Or, worse, like I saw on Oprah today, just left abandoned on the shoulder of the Interstate to rot in the sun, like so much garbage. Such indignity! It's just disgusting.